I am new to the pontiac world.  Always been into mustangs, but just bought a 1971 Firebird.  How much power does a stock poniac 350 make?  What can I do to make this car hang with my Mustangs?  

Nice choice- the G2 'Bird, especially the '70-'73 variety, have always been my favorite. The stock 350 is not exactly the ideal performance choice, but it will respond nicely to the typical bolt-ons (4 bbl carb, alum dual-plane manifold, headers and dual exhaust, HEI distributor, hotter coil and hi-po wires). If you have high compression heads, a cam plus all of the above will really make a big difference. Just don't expect a motor with 150k+ mi on it to run like a freshly rebuilt motor with all of the go-fast goodies on it.

My '72 'Bird was originally an Espirit, low comp. 350-2V w/ a dinky 2" dual exhaust and stock manifolds. I put all of the bolt-ons first and it ran nice, but nowhere near as strong and hard as compared to my first RA III 406 motor.

Geno  

Buy an aftermarket crank for a 3" main Pontiac (326-400 are all the 3" mains), or a crank out of a 400ci, overbore the engine, and you've got yourself a 406+ ci engine...  

Then you can make as much power as you'd like.





I had a 400 block with an Eagle stroker crank that had 462ci with a .030" or .040" overbore.  Made 700hp with Edelbrock heads, intake, and a roller cam.  

Goatman,
Is your stroker crank the cast one rated to 800 hp? What kind of rods, roller cam, and induction did you go with to get 700 hp?

Geno  

No idea what it was rated at.  Doesn't really make a difference, as 800hp with nitrous places completely different stresses on a rotating assembly than say, 800hp with a turbo.  My crank was a Eagle cast crank.  Eagle rods, CP pistons.  

The roller was a .660-.680 lift.  Don't remember the other specs.  

The intake was a Victor ported by Wilson, modified for EFI by Steve Grebeck.  It was a 4150 style intake with a 1000 cfm TB.  Nothing really special other than the port work and Mr. Grebecks' work.  

Look in the latest HPP! Our new 383 Stroker kit buld up for traditional Pontiac V-8's. We made over 462 hp on pump gas with cast iron heads. It is a interesting read.

  Also you cannot overbore a 350 enough to make it a 400. And since the 326. 350 and 400 share THE SAME crank (3.750)you can't do nothing there.

  The kit Goatman is refering to is a 4.25 stroke in a 400 block. We carry many different kits in stock to do just about anything.

   Be Cool,
        Ace  

I was able to run decent 15's in my heavy 71 lemans with the stock 350 and a 4bl q-jet carb and gm intake. Stock with the 2bl carb, they made about 200 hp and 350 torque on a bare engine according to pontiac specs. But realistic hp and torque is likely much lower! Just remember to not over REV that thing, it's not a "small block" like other 350's!  

I got a Pontiac 350 in my 70 Firebird and I plan on puttin' some horsepower in mine.  Well for 71, a 350 had 255 hp @ 4,600 rpm with 355 ft/lb of torque @ 2,800 rpm with a 2 barrel carb. Compression ratio is 8.2:1.  Just to give you an idea if your keeping the motor of what i'm doing to mine:  
- Edelbrock Performer Intake w/ Edelbrock 600 cfm carb
- Roller Rockers
- Hi-Po cam (I have one in the engine, have no idea what the specs are)
- Port n Polished Heads + them being milled (Don't know by how much yet)
- Hooker Headers
- I might get some forged aluminum pistons
Basically whatever bolt on I can get on it, i'm going to try and make mine keep up with at least an LT-1 but i'm pretty sure you can get that motor to hang with some mustangs, the 350 can have alot of torque.  

IMO if you're going to pull the motor it's better to go 400 w/ some performance heads (no.62, 48, 12, 13). You're going to a higher static CR (10.75:1), but you're also getting more power from the larger bore and increased CID. The same mods on a 406 (400 .030 over) will give you around 375hp/400+ ft-lbs. torque.

I run a similar configuration with my 406:
-Holley 750 Vac. sec. w/ manual choke
-Edelbrock performer
-Comp Cams 270H (270 dur,224@.050, .470")
-no.48 heads (2.11/1.77, 72 cc, chamber deburred, mild port and polish)
-TRW forged pistons (.030)
-1.6 alum. roller rockers
-1 5/8" Hooker ProComp headers, 2 1/2" pipes w/ 3-ch Flowmasters
- Mallory ProMaster coil and Hyfire IV CD ignition

The car with this engine ran a 13.08@ 104mph with BFG Comp T/A VR4 235/60VR15s and a 10-bolt 3.08:1 posi (basically optimized for road race). I suspect it makes a bit more power than this, since I've blown up 3 TH-350 trans. since installing this motor.

I do keep the timing on this motor a bit conservative (no more than 32 deg total), but it will run on 91 pump gas, since the cam bleeds a bit of cyl. pressure at lower rpms.

Geno  

There's only one problem with the myth of "use a cam big enough to bleed off cylinder pressure at low rpm", what happens at wide open throttle above 2000 rpm, where the cam is allowing more cylinder pressure than your octane can support? Lets think about this, at full throttle with the carb and exhaust noise , can you really hear the detonation beating the crap out of your pistons, rods and crank? I've seen guys try to run 10.5 or 11:1 in race cars, where the rules only allow street pump gas, sure they run fine, make good power, but they can't hear the top of the piston collapsing onto the rings, seizing the rings and scoring the cylinders and pounding the top half of the rod bearings and bottom half of the mains down to the copper after a half season. Or they spend all season trying to figure out why the engine runs so hot and why they can't keep head gaskets in it.
A 9:1 motor properly cammed and tuned will make more power reliably on 91 octane than a 10.5 or 11:1 motor crutched together with a cam that's too big and running with too little timing and too much jet just to get by on 91 octane. Sure lots of resto guys run like that but how many really run their trailer queens hard?  

By the way, I'm sure I'll hear lots of howling protests over that last post, but you can't change the basic mechanical principals. There is all kinds of real mechanical research done by the car manufacturers to this effect, yet everyone chooses to believe what their local cruise night experts tell them. How much time and money do you think those guys spent to research this stuff, probably the price of his last cam change!  

Barney,
I have no arguement with what you're saying- it would be ideal if there was an aftermarket ECM for classic Pontiac motors, but I know of none.

What is the solution to properly build power on pump gas, run lower compression big cc heads? What is the proper octane fuel to run with the high CR 72cc heads? I'd like to put a stroker kit in my 406 and eventually go with some Edelbrock aluminum heads.

Geno  

Geno, Sorry I didn't mean to come across as argumentative. Last time I posted something a little controversial, you could hear the howls before you logged in!
I agree, an aftermarket EFI system would make tuning easier and there are systems availble (see the tech article on the SD455 in this site), but it can be done with a carb and distributor.
Personally, I feel that with all d-port heads being roughly equal, flow-wise, the only variable is combustion chamber size. Using the 5C,6X,6X-4 heads lowers the compression ratio to pump gas levels and lets you run full timing advance, earlier advance and optimum jetting without worrying about detonation or overheating problems. You can also cam the engine for it's proper rpm range, instead of crutching it with one that is too large.
As for octane with 10+:1, you really need 100 octane that comes from the racetrack dealers.
Of course with aluminum heads you can get away with more squeeze due to the quicker heat dissipation. Catch you later.
Barney  

Hi everybody, new to the forum and I was reading the tread and I too have a pontiac 350.  I can't seem to find any specifics on what I can do to just freshen this baby up and get a reliable, real 300+ hp out of it.  All the anwsers I can find always tell me to get a 400 or stroke it, or some other drastic measures.  The 350 is a common motor and I know people out there have them that are happy with the them.  So what I am asking is what kind of bolt on mods can a person do to make a dependable strong running motor, what combinations are people running and what kind of power are they getting.  I have a 1969 350 HO with #48 heads it was rated at 320hp I believe, which I know is a little unrealistic.  Any suggestions you can give me would be great.  And remember I understand a 400 would be better and any thing I would do to the 350 would respond better in a bigger motor.

What kind of cam, heads, exhaust, pistons, intake etc.. what kind of results.  

Thanks Everybody  

I got one that puts out 462hp at the fly wheel do not stroke it that's my opion so they say www.northernautoparts.com is a great place to start for a rebuild kit and reguardless of what any body says you can pull a great amount of horsepower and torq. out of a 350 pontiac engine.Let me know what kind of H.P. AND TORQ. you are looking for and I will do what I can to get you there...