I just received this car from my father, he's handed it down to me.  I am 25 yrs old & I am a toyota mechanic.  I remember as a kid absolutely loving this car, it was extremely fast and fun car.  My dad also tells me that it might be the only one in existance like it.  My father special ordered this car from the factory with just about every option available.  It has a YM 400 block extremely rare ramair V heads Quadrajet 4M 800cfm carb, TH400, 3.08 rear end, W66 suspension package, custom deluxe interior, rear console, PS, AC  I know all this because I got a build sheet from Pontiac Historical.  The sticker price was $6638
Back in 96 My father decided that with 78,000 miles on the car he'd do a full out rebuild, my father went a little overboard.  The 400 was bored out .030" and forged TRW Pop-up racing pistons with a .8" dome were installed along with a set of eagle rods, new valves were installed ferrea oversize 2.2" and 1.77" valves, then he had a Comp Cams 315H cam installed with 1.65 ratio pushrods, and full roller valve train.   Then proceded to have the TH400 rebuilt and a transgo stage 2 shift kit installed.  Initially the car was extremely fast and scary.  In 2000 my dad lost his license for doing 186mph on I-84 in Oregon state.  He had promised me the car & would hand it over when I proved to be mature enough to handle it.  I guess it took till I was 25 lol.  

Anyways, the engine has about 10,000 miles on it, and is just seems like it's fairly quick in the primaries but soon as the secondaries kick in, it just falls on it's face.  I know there's probably something wrong with the carbeurator.  The guy who built the engine said the engine really required headers, full exhaust, new intake manifold and a 1000cfm carb to really be at it's best.  In my attempt to learn about these quadrajets I tested the diaphragm valve that opens the secondary flaps & it moves back & forth but never opens the secondary flaps.  The rod connecting the 2 looks like it had been bent up several times, does anyone have any info on how I can get the secondaries to open up?????  
Thanks in advance for any comments or info.  

As far as I know Pontiac NEVER made an intake manifold for the RAV that had a spread-bore pattern.  Also, by 1974, the RAV, which was always an experimental engine for Trans Am racing (303CID) and Nascar (366CID) had been discontinued for 5 years.

The only "production" car to ever have RAV heads was Milt Shornack's 1969 GTO that originally had RAIV in it, but was converted by him.

In the mid 1970s, I sold a 1963 Tempest (Mickey Thompson A/FX clone) to my friend Pete McCarthy who built up a RAV for drag racing, so I know what a RAV is.

It would be nice if you had pictures.  Or post a VIN (less last 6 digits) and/or the QJet number.

In any case, WRT your question about getting the QJet to work, contact Cliff Ruggles:

http://www.cliffshighperformance.com/

Craig Hendrickson "OriginalHO"
http://www.originalho.com  

my buildsheet says that it has Ramair V option the option line was $1800 and says to be installed at factory
and the place that built the engine Westburg advanced racing ran the casting #s on the head & they didn't match any other pontiac head in their books   BTW my dad raced SCCA back in the 60's $ 70's and had access to things & people the average guy didn't.  I am positive that it has Ramair V heads, I don't claim to be an expert at all but Year One told me that if I got the build sheet from PHS and it states that on the build sheet than it's legit & several times they offered to buy the car.  I will never sell this car, I grew up riding to the sprint races & drag races in the car. Too many memories.  I would like it to run correctly so I can moveon to finish the restoration.  I need a 74 Front bird emblem, a paintjob, and new rear spoiler decals, Then I can finish the car.  

BTW thanks for the reply I called & left a message for Cliff.  

One simple way to tell if it has RAV heads is to determine by visual inspection the valve order.  All Pontiac V-8 except the RAV are EIIEEIIE, i.e.,  "siamesed" center exhaust ports.  The RAV is EIEIIEIE, i.e., exhaust ports are evenly arranged.

You can see what real RAV heads look like by seeing the pix on this page on my friend John Wallace's website:

http://www.wallaceracing.com/RAV-story-page3.html

Also, please post the first part of the VIN and the carb number.

Craig  

I looked at that cylinder head & while I cannot tell anything but the exhaust.  The exhaust looks the exact same with 4 separate exhaust tubes.  I don't know if all of these old pontiac v8's had them, If I am reading your post right, the RAV was the only cylinder head to have separate exhaust ports????  It would make total sense cause I ordered a set of headers for a Ramair IV thinking they'd probably be the same & they weren't at all.  no way the Ramair IV headers would work on this engine.  it's intake looks like the one you linked to but the original 850 carter AFB (I think) was removed cause my dad said it bowed the hood because it sat higher & the quadrapuke was installed.  I will get pics when I get a chance to get back to the car.  I really don't want to post my vin# anywhere.  I posted my vin# on a ebay add when I was selling my supra & my car was stolen within a wk.  turns out the guy took my vin to the dealer & had a key cut for it and stole my car.  

First, I did not say post your complete VIN.  Just the non-serial number part, i.e., leave off the last 6 digits (substitute 'X' for the digits).  That is safe to do.  No one can "cut a key" based on the VIN prefix.

Second, since you are still not sure after comparing the exhaust ports on your engine with the pictures on Wallace's website, just take a digipix of the passenger side head (preferably) and post it here or somewhere (Photobucket) or email it to me and I'll post it on my website.  In any case, I'll let you know my considered opinion.

I don't necessarily doubt what you are claiming, I'm just skeptical, because it is pretty outrageous. Maybe your dad did get Pontiac to produce a one-off.  If so, that car deserves to be in one or more magazines and is worth a fortune.

I'd be happy to do whatever I can do to help determine exactly what you have.  I do not have any interest in buying it or turning people on to it.
 
Craig  

Cliff probably won't return your phone call until Monday.  He knows what he's doing and he does it commercially.  IMO, he's the best guy in the country on Pontiac QJets. He'll take care of your problem(s).  Tell him I sent you.

P.S. Don't call the carb a "Quadrajunk"!

Craig  

I'll stay out of the discussion about the RAV heads and just throw in my 2 cents about the carb. The vacuum break you are talking about doesn't open the secondaries, it prevents them from opening-sort of. When there is full engine vacuum on the break, it holds the secondaries closed, when the throttle is opend to full, the vacuum drops off, the actual secondary throttle plates open mechanically (in the baseplate) and airflow thru the carb pulls the secondary air valves (top of the carb body) open against the tension of the secondary air valve spring. The spring tension can be adjusted by loosening the small allen head lock screw under the top-right-rear corner of the carb and adjusting the small flathead screw either tighter or looser. However, I tend to think your problem is more related to fuel delivery than airflow, if the car has been sitting for some time, there may be a problem with the float level being too low or dirt in the jets, it's also possible that the power piston is seized in the down position causing a lean condition. I agree with Craig, it's not a Quadrajunk! It is a sophisticated, finely engineered piece of equipment and needs to be understood before attempting to work on it or tune it. Cliff is definitely the man to see about it.  

Allright I talked to cliff & decided to take the carb apart myself.  To find that these carbs are actually extremely simple, not that many moving parts, I guess the complex part of it is all the little tuned size air tubes in the carb to create low pressure areas, etc.... I found the primary jets were clogged with a white scale.  I cleaned it all up, replaced all the gaskets, found one reason why it ran so rich on the primaries.  The fuel inlet piston has a clip that clips to the float & the manual says to make sure it's not clipped on the 2 holes in the end of the float bracket otherwise severe overfueling will occur, guess where it was clipped.  I moved the float up & down & saw that the inlet piston gets stuck cause it's trying go up & down at a angle instead of straight up and down, also the idle fuel mixture screws were all the way out. So the carb is completely rebuilt & ready to go back on the car.  In a effort to find what kind of things were done to the car I talked to my father & removed valve covers.  I checked over the heads & they have a 44 casting and 4 separate large round exhaust ports, they also don't have pushrod guide plates in the head.  it just goes straight through a hole in the head.  I have a question because I don't know how to do the math to find out what my lift should be.  it has a comp cams 305H flat tappet camshaft, it says advertised duration as 305/305 and .525" of lift.  then my dad says he put in some hydraulic roller lifters????  he said he put in 1.65 ratio pushrods, roller rockers, tripple valve springs with 10 degree polylocks.

Does the ratio of the rocker arm increase the lift over what the cams advertised lift is???

so I took the valve cover off & found that they are comp cams roller rockers & say 165 at the top right of the rocker arm.  the pushrods do not have any enscriptions that I can see.

I also searched around & I don't think anyone makes a 1.65 ratio pushrod  only rocker arms.  My father says that after the build was finished the valvetrain made too much noise so he took it back to the builder & he said he pulled the high ratio pushrods & put the stock back in to get rid of the noise.  

Is it possible the builder put in a longer than stock rod to get even more lift????  Maybe used the crazy valve springs to compensate & overcome the hydraulic lifters???????  Then when they were making noise decided to pull the pushrods back out & put stock ones in?

I need help with this guys I am trying to finish the restoration, and document some things, and also learn all the terminology.

Thanks for you help!  

Good work on the QJet.

#44 casting number is correct for the 400 RAV.

The length of a pushrod does NOT determine the lift unless it is the wrong length in which case it reduces the lift.  The correct length pushrod will have the contact point of the tip of the rocker arm centered on the valve stem at 1/2 lift.  Any other condition and the valve train geometry is wrong.

Putting hydraulic roller lifters on a flat tappet cam profile makes NO SENSE.  Roller profiles are completely different in design.  Also, the RAV heads need (a lot) more duration on the exhaust than the intake.  Pontiac was going to use a varient of their RAIV cam (308/320) on production RAV 400s.  

allright I called a few places today, Comp cams, TRW, and the actual engine builder.  The engine builder was able to find the spec sheet & is going to send it to me.  He says that it has the comp cams 305H camshaft, hydraulic flat tappet lifters, comp cams push rods, 1.65ratio rocker arms, Double valve springs, and Ferrea (Tulipped??) 2.20 and 1.80 in valves with a 5 angle valve job.

I don't know what tulipped valves mean.

I called TRW and got no where with them.  

My dad recalls the TRW forged Pop up racing pistons having a .800" dome on them.  That sounds like a rediculous dome size, so I am trying to track down the correct pistons that were installed without tearing the cylinder heads off.  The builder gave me a model # but I googled it & got nothing.  I am trying to find the compression ratio on it.

Called COmp cams and they did the math & told me I should have .578" of lift on intake and exhaust.  
That sounds like alot of lift!  Is that a monster ammount of lift for these motors or not?

also would that 308/320 cam be better for this motor than the 305/305 with .578 lift.

My father also said that he chose to not go with a roller camshaft because you have to adjust the valves more often, is that true?  I know there is no adjustment for a hydraulic lifter other than oil pressure right??

I appreciate your guys help on figuring out what I have & what it should produce..

also is it true with a aftermarket HEI distributor you have to advance the base timing alot further because the vacuum advance on the HEI's are not as extreme as the stock distributor.  Also what is the total ignition timing supposed to be set at,  because I think it's severly retarded to run on pump gas safely.  My dad says it's set at 8 degrees base timing. I am gonna check today when I get it back together but Could that account for why it just doesn't feel like it did before the rebuild.   I am also gonna replace the plugs.

Thanks for your guys help.  

"Tulipped" valve means that the face of the valve is concave, not flat, kind of like a tulip flower.  This reduces valve weight because there is less material on the face of the valve.

Hydraulic flat tappet lifters would be correct for that Comp cam.  Roller lifters would not.  Hydraulic lifters are adjustment free, but do not have quite the performance of mechanical lifters, flat or roller.  Also, you CANNOT use a regular Pontiac camshaft of any grind because of the unique valve order (EIEIIEIE).  Another possible difference in the cam is the RAV and 455SD had a smaller gear to drive a bigger gear on the end of the distributor.  

TRW never made pop-up pistons for the RAV cylinder head.  Probably they were pop-ups for a regular Pontiac cylinder head.  In any case, you CANNOT run that much compression ratio (probably > 12:1) with today's gas low octane rating.  Recently I built a 400+0.030 with 1970 RAIII heads and used KB DISHED pistons to get 9.6:1 CR.  That engine runs fine.  The only solution to your problem is to replace the pistons.

The curve in the HEI is not your problem, the compression ratio and wrong cam profile is.  I suggest you send your unique engine to someone qualified to work on it, not just any old engine shop.  Ken Crocie of H-0 Enterprises has built several RAVs and he knows what he is doing with a Pontiac.  Most high performance engine shops do not have a clue!

Good luck,

Craig  

This is the company that built this engine.  It was their first High performance pontiac build.  


http://www.advancedengines.com/  

What exactly does the PHS doc. show for the engine? Is it typed in like the rest of the options or hand written?

Sounds like an interesting car...

Mike