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Help!! Please rebuilding 400 pontiac

  
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Help!! Please rebuilding 400 pontiac

 
Allysfreebird Allysfreebird
New User | Posts: 5 | Joined: 12/08
Posted: 04/05/09
11:48 AM

Hi I'm Ally
I have a 1980 Firebird I just bought a 68 400 block that i want to rebuild
but before i start puchasing the parts i want to make sure my set up is alright
this is what i`ve planed out so far

e-brock performer RPM heads
crane energizer 272 H-10 cam
bore out the engine 0.030 over
speed pro pistons
stock crank
Tomahawk  light weight i-beam rods
e-brock performer rpm intake
750 Holley
1 5/8 hooker headers
and a 3 inch exaust
i also have a 200 r4 transmission

also should i keep the stock rear end gears or not  

i`m looking to make at least 400 horse and i was wondering if anyone has a guess if
i can make that with this set up
and any advice or suggestions would be great!
Thank you for any help  

 
Pontiacman8 Pontiacman8
Guru | Posts: 1417 | Joined: 02/08
Posted: 04/05/09
03:04 PM

The list looks pretty good except for the cam I would recomend get a bigger cam to use with the edelbrock heads with the cam you mentioned you wont see the potential of the edelbrock heads.
What is the intended use street or strip.
what size is the chamber on the edelbrock heads you intend to use 72cc or 87cc.  
professional hi-performance engine builder

Horsepower sells engines and torque wins races

 
creepyracing creepyracing
User | Posts: 134 | Joined: 06/08
Posted: 04/05/09
07:34 PM

Should make well over 400 horse. All the torque your going to put out is going to explode that 200R4. If you need a overdrive get a 700R4 and find someone to beef it up. A TH400 would work best. The Rear gears depend on what your going to do with the car? Pontiacman is right on, get a little more cam. I'd use some 1.65 roller rockers also. Sounds like a sleeper.  

 
Allysfreebird Allysfreebird
New User | Posts: 5 | Joined: 12/08
Posted: 04/06/09
03:51 PM

I thought the cam would be to small but I wasn't completely sure
i actually already have the cam it was initially for a 350 that I have
in my garage but the guy that I purchased it off of said that i could return it
no problem so that works out    what do think is a preferable cam?
I plan on using a 72 cc
Ya it's definitely a sleeper!
I love Pontiacman's quote Horsepower sells Torque wins races
Would the 200 r4 beefed up work as well? Or is it worth the extra money to go buy
a new tranny?
also for the rockers whats a good set of rollers that i could look at?
Thanks for your help guys its really appreciated  

 
Allysfreebird Allysfreebird
New User | Posts: 5 | Joined: 12/08
Posted: 04/06/09
03:58 PM

Also it is meant for street but I do want to take it to the strip and be able to hold my own.  

 
Pontiacman8 Pontiacman8
Guru | Posts: 1417 | Joined: 02/08
Posted: 04/06/09
04:41 PM

I would recomend a lunati streetmaster cam P#07702 which has a .507lift and would make better use of the edelbrock heads.
As for the roller rockers I would go with a set of harland sharp. If you deside to go with the mentioned cam .507 lift then go with 1.5 ratio rockers.  
professional hi-performance engine builder

Horsepower sells engines and torque wins races

 
Pontiacman8 Pontiacman8
Guru | Posts: 1417 | Joined: 02/08
Posted: 04/06/09
04:49 PM

Oh yes a beefed up 200-4R should handle the power just fine because the 200-4R is a stronger transmission then the 700r4.  
professional hi-performance engine builder

Horsepower sells engines and torque wins races

 
mildchild mildchild
New User | Posts: 39 | Joined: 12/08
Posted: 04/09/09
05:56 PM

the gear ratio in the 2004r is more favorable as well. 700r4's have a real low first but a big gap to second. check out ck performance.com. you can get a book on how to build that trans from there. its $65  

 
barneyformula barneyformula
Guru | Posts: 979 | Joined: 01/07
Posted: 04/10/09
01:56 AM

I agree about the 200r4 over the 700, the gear ratio of the 700 is all wrong for a torque heavy Pontiac. There are plenty of upgrades available for the 200 and lots of guys are using them. I've included a link to Bowtie Overdrives at the bottom, they have a great how-to section on correctly setting up the TV cable and brackets to get the correct geometry and they sell the parts to make the cable work with several kinds of carbs.
Steve

http://www.bowtieoverdrives.com/index.shtml  
Trying to help... 'cause we don't all have to learn the hard way!

 
Allysfreebird Allysfreebird
New User | Posts: 5 | Joined: 12/08
Posted: 04/10/09
03:09 PM

thats sounds great I'll definetly look into the cam
alright I guess I'm beefing up the 200 then
any ideas for the rear gears?
thanks again guys  

 
Pontiacman8 Pontiacman8
Guru | Posts: 1417 | Joined: 02/08
Posted: 04/10/09
03:16 PM

I would go with 3.73 rear gears sense you have a over drive transmission.  
professional hi-performance engine builder

Horsepower sells engines and torque wins races

 
poor_mans_goat poor_mans_goat
New User | Posts: 20 | Joined: 04/09
Posted: 04/12/09
06:19 AM

I have one question that has been all but overlooked... Why do you want to spend a "G" on aluminum heads at a 72cc combustion? You said you want to drive this on the sreet but hold your own on the track right? The RPM heads and intake are designed to high rev and there goes economy. I hope you have a second job to pay for the extra fuel! At 4.15 bore with a 3.75 stock stroke will give you lots of torque and power, but I digress, I think you are in the same position I was in about three months ago. STOP looking in the Summit, and Jegs mags and start thinking very hard about rev limit, economy, afordability, and reality. Here is a link that I have posted before.... http://www.projectpontiac.com/ppsite/content/view/16/30/
    This will help you to understand what an engine can and can't do.
    What it sounds like is you want to drop about five grand into your engine, and you can get what you want with about half that or less. Start thinking about iron heads, and find yourself an "honest" machine shop and BE HONEST WITH THE GUY and tell him your new to engines. He/she should help you with your decision making process in the most affordable fashion.
    As for the remainder of items, I just want to add that if that is what you will do, it will rev quickly, like a true hotrod.
    I am in the same boat bud, I am building a 72' 400 with 0.030 over bore myself. I am running 6X heads with a 101cc combustion chamber that has a three angle vavle job. I have been thinking about the E-brock heads at 87cc but do I really want to part with a "G?" NO! Everyone is different, in the end, it's your money and your engine. So the decision is yours.  

 
poor_mans_goat poor_mans_goat
New User | Posts: 20 | Joined: 04/09
Posted: 04/12/09
06:31 AM

By the by, what are the heads you have now? I am guessing you have a stock intake. Think about an E-brock performer intake and not the RPM. A stock bottom end should work nicely with a street-able build that will be on the track every so often. As for myself, I have two bolt mains, stock crank that has been spec'ed and rebalanced, stock rods that has been gone over with a fine tooth comb, and four brow flat top aluminum pistons (make forgotten), and that is the bottom end balanced. As for the top I will be using 6X heads at 101cc ( I have thought about milling them down, that is cheaper than the alternative) Comp cams xtreme line ( final decision not yet made as for lobe seperation and grind), Comp cams magnum pushrods, and a nice set of roller rockers. As for the intake I am running an E-brock performer (not RPM) with a 650cfm carb probably jetted up.
    Final decision is yours afterall. GOOD LUCK.  

 
blackbird72 blackbird72
User | Posts: 150 | Joined: 08/07
Posted: 04/12/09
04:56 PM

Ally,
Switch your cam to a Crane 284H (284 dur,.228@.050, .480 lift, 112 LSA)and you will make at least 425-440 hp with the E-heads, and still idle smooth enough for 4-wheel disc brakes. I have this cam in my 406 w/ ported no.48's, Holley 750 vac sec. on an e-performer, Hooker comps and 2 1/2" duals, TH-350 w/2000 stall and 3.08 posi- my 'Bird runs consistent 13.0x's. Be sure to run 1.65 roller rockers to take advantage of the 260+ cfm the e-heads can deliver.

I personally would run forged KB's instead of the Speed-Pros- the KB's are lighter and have floating pins. And the best part is they cost about $400/set- that's a no-brainer to me. The jury is out on the TH200R-4- depends on who built it and what hard part upgrades were made. The TH-350 OTOH is proven, and can be built to handle 500+ hp.

Geno  

 
Allysfreebird Allysfreebird
New User | Posts: 5 | Joined: 12/08
Posted: 04/14/09
09:04 PM

This is definetly why I asked for some help my machinest is a great guy and he's been trying to sell me on some iron heads as well he's already found me a set with bigger valve i'm not sure what heads they are but I currently have 94 heads off my 350 that could be re-used but i don't think that i'm going to use them.
This is definetly another thing that I've been tearing my hair out over lol
My friend just finished building his mustang and has definetly been around the block and swears they're worth every peny and on the other hand like you said
my machinest could definetly cut the price in half by using iron heads.
The only thing is I don't want to put money into iron heads and in a couple years
think to myself "damn i should have saved the money and bought alluminum" lol
The price of e-brock heads do make my mouth drop though!
Poor_ mans_goat i really appreciate your help my name should  chicks_firebird_is going to make her broke  
But again it comes down to value I'm willing to go into work 7 days a week to get my money's worth this is my first car as well so i want to do it right
If should go with e-brock should i be looking at 87 cc heads instead though?
Any other opinions on iron vs aluminum heads?
Blackbird72 I like that set up that sounds alot like what i'm looking for
i know i'm going to be spending an arm and a leg on gas anyways but with your set up how many mpg on average ish do you get? And what octane should I be using?
.....sorry about the novel lol

Thanks guys
Ally  

 
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