My compliant letter to Pontiac! With responses

How DARE you!!!

Killing Pontiac to save Buick? The old farts that buy Buicks will be dead in
10 years, way before those of us who buy Pontiac's! Saving GMC? For what,
they're Chevy's if you didn't know. With Bob Putz out of the picture
couldn't we just go back to the way names were.recognizable?

Couldn't you idiots figure out how to make Pontiac, Pontiac again? Can't you
fix what Putz screwed up before? First you stopped putting sticks in
most Pontiac's, then you took the styling away and gave us crap like the
Aztec and then came the Solstice, what the hell kinda styling and naming you
morons got going on!! I've owned nothing but Poncho's me entire life. If
Pontiac goes I will never buy another GM product again, and my family will
never either! Maybe time for me to _Shift!!


Kirk

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Dear Kirk,


Thank you for contacting the Pontiac Customer Assistance Center.  We appreciate hearing your thoughts and having the opportunity to review your concerns.


We are grateful for your faith in Pontiac.   Anyone who has been associated with the Pontiac brand knows that this was a difficult decision.  Pontiac has had a rich and storied history, but unfortunately, despite the efforts of all concerned, the brand has been unprofitable over the past several years.  We had hoped in our February 17 Viability Plan to convert Pontiac to a niche brand within the Buick-Pontiac-GMC channel.  


However, the Viability Plan as submitted was not acceptable.  GM was further challenged to take more significant restructuring actions which would allow the company to be viable even in these unprecedented market conditions and in any future cyclical market downturns.  These restructuring actions require further sacrifice by all stakeholders: GM employees, suppliers, investors and dealers.


As part of these renewed restructuring efforts, we spent considerable time formulating Pontiac portfolio scenarios that would allow the brand to be sustainable and profitable long term.  Unfortunately after careful evaluation, none of these scenarios proved viable.


Therefore, GM is announcing the phase out of the Pontiac brand by year end 2010.  This action will allow General Motors to devote its limited capital and other resources to GM s four core brands:  Chevrolet, Cadillac, Buick and GMC.  It is important to recognize, 85 percent of our B-P-G volume is sold through B-P-G aligned dealers.  Going forward, our strategy is to grow the product offerings of Buick and GMC in an attempt to provide appropriate market coverage, competitive throughput and dealer profitability.


In the meantime, warranty coverage is safe and sound, and GM dealerships remain open for sales and service.  GM values its customers and we appreciate your loyalty.  And, we are more committed than ever to making every car and truck we build a winner and to providing the best ownership experience in the industry.  More information about the contents of the viability plan is available on www.gmfactsandfiction.com.


One of the best things about America is that we have the freedom to openly discuss our personal values, ideas and beliefs.  At GM, we recognize that individuals have many different views.  Your input are vital to us, we have documented your remarks under Service Request number 71-720608810.  Thank you for letting us know how you feel.


I hope this email has been most helpful to you.  If you should need to contact us in the future, simply reply to this message or call our Pontiac Customer Assistance Center at 1-800-762-2737.  Customer Relationship Specialists are available Monday to Saturday, 8 a.m. to 9 p.m. EST, Closed Sunday.


Again, thank you for contacting Pontiac.


Sincerely,


The Pontiac Consumer Support Team

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Dear The Pontiac Consumer Support Team,

The reason it's been lacking any profit was due partly to Bob Lutz pitting Pontiac against BMW, what the hell for? No respectable Pontiac guy would ever own a BMW! Why would anyone do this to such a storied brand? You should have paid attention to Pontiac forums and asked loyal fanatics. The business plan for Pontiac over the past few years has SUCKED! Why would you get rid of any recognizable model name in favor of the G-wiz cars that replaced them? Spend some time on any Pontiac forum and ask around, everyone agrees!

Most of the problem as I see it from my position as a buyer and LOYAL Pontiac fanatic is that GM hasn't produced a car that is affordable to the demographic that fits Pontiac. $36k for performance cars to compete with Mustang's that are cheaper, and almost as good performance wise to Trans Am and GTO, who are you kidding? The latest GTO even though I like it was a flop due to Price, styling, and being from Down under. Doing away with the over priced Trans Am in favor of nothing was stupid. I had hoped to see a more affordable Trans Am come back in its place. F-body cars target the age group 18-40, the price targets Corvette guys, and 41-dead. Why couldn't GM see this flaw? I've watched since the late 80's as the price of the F-body's climbed well over $10k more than what it was, losing the demographic. The last incarnation of the Grand Am GT with no stick was BS! The Sunfire was nothing but a joke, the G6 although nice to see in GPX (where did that come from, GPX?) was nothing short of a wasted chance, better fuel economy and PONTIAC styling would have helped it along with a better price. The G8 is nothing more than the Cadillac CTS-V's competition (DUMB). The freakin AZTEC, what about it was Pontiac? Solstice what a crappy name for a Pontiac and where is the aggressive styling of Pontiac on it? Hell the Sky is more aggressive and Saturn's a Yuppie car line! Oh and what about a Pontiac version of the El Camino.....WTF!!!! We're Pontiac owners, not aussie's, or Chevy people! You want to know about what sells to Pontiac owners and their families, do market studies with them not every GM buyer you can.

The lack of control GM has had over the Unions is abysmal and cost GM plenty and Pontiac its life! The management at GM should have been SHOT more than a decade ago for not actually doing right by the brand or GM! I have sent complaints in the past about these things only to be told that GM had reviewed this or that. Maybe it had, but not with Pontiac people! We bring our children up in the culture of Pontiac, we raise them to be Pontiac buyers, fans, and loyalists to the brand. My 6 year old has wanted a Firebird since he was 4 for god sake!

To put it as bluntly as I can, I don't give two shits about Buick or GMC, so kill them! Buick is for old retirees who will likely die in the next 10-20 years, I'm 33 so I would have been buying Pontiacs for the next 40-50 at least. Can you do the math? GMC is just rebadged Chevy trucks, who gives a crap if it goes away? Bring back Pontiac as Pontiac, NOT PMW!! I would love to chat with GM officials about this, and would love for them to join every Forum for Pontiac enthusiasts they can find and chat with the rest of us Poncho people to see what we believe. That should have been done before it got to the stage of letting Bob Putz screw us over. I know this will be cataloged and not worried about as GM has gotten to big to care about what people who love a brand think about!

Thanks for a great history, but that's all it is now isn't it!!

Totally Pissed,
Kirk  

Name calling, threats, terrible grammar and insults. Gee, I wonder why they didn't change their minds after reading this letter!  
Trying to help... 'cause we don't all have to learn the hard way!

Not all buicks are own by old people.  
professional hi-performance engine builder

Horsepower sells engines and torque wins races

Pontiac was dead a long time ago when pontiac no longer made V8 engines which was 1981  
professional hi-performance engine builder

Horsepower sells engines and torque wins races

Gee Barney I thought you'd be on our side. It's called Passion and being just plain pissed at what they are doing. You got any passion? Use it then. Think you can do better? Prove it! I want to see your letters to GM and the responses they get. Atleast I'm doing something to try and save the Pontiac line. What have you done other than pick at what I'm trying to do? Have you been sitting idly by while this is happening, or are you actually doing something other than attending the funeral?

To Pontiacman8, I haven't seen anybody who is under the age of 65 driving new Buicks in my area, classics hell yea, new no. I agree that the Pontiac line was severely hurt when they lost their own power plants, but atleast the styling was still present in most models. It would be great to see 90 degree V8's back in the line up! I'm hoping someday to put a fuel injected all aluminum Pontiac together to put in my 68 GTO (budget permitting). Imagine that type of plant in a 2002 Trans Am.

Instead of turning your banter at me, try focusing it on GM.  

Kirk,
OK, I'll quit picking, but you have to understand my position. Loving classic Pontiacs has nothing to do with the current situation, I seriously don't care if the Pontiac brand name goes away because that's all that it is...a brand name. I've never bought a brand new vehicle (I'm almost 39) and the last new car I got excited about was the 97 Grand Prix GTP. I waited for 2 years and bought a 3800 powered SE used so I wasn't the fool who took a $10,000 (30%)depreciation hit in the first two years.I sold that car two years later because of a growing family that needed a minivan and within another two years the rocker panels were gone. That's a 6 year old car gone from beautiful to scrap, it's resale value was less than what it would cost the current owner to fix it. My 79 Formula is 30 years old and looks better than 95% of cars on the road today between 5 and 10 years old. Besides Pontiac quit selling parts for my baby years ago so I have no reason to shop there.
The other point is that GM is being forced to cut wherever they can to keep the parent company afloat so the overpaid execs can pull another couple of yearsworth of pay and bonuses before they bankrupt the whole company. Letters and protests won't change that, it is driven by pure greed. That's the American way, unfortunatley.
Steve  
Trying to help... 'cause we don't all have to learn the hard way!

Glad its cleared up that the old people thing is just for the new buicks and not the classic buicks.  
professional hi-performance engine builder

Horsepower sells engines and torque wins races

Hi Kirk,

Unfortunately, in the greater scheme of things we (Pontiac die-hard's/enthusiasts)are on the fringe of the demographic bell curve. The reality of today is that most people rank their car's importance right up there with their toaster or washing machine. Like it or not, we enthusiasts are but a very, very small segment of the overall car market. Believe me, if the numbers indicated that enough Pontiac enthusiasts were out there, they would indeed listen. Like it or not, that's the cold, hard reality of today's automotive market place.

I'm a 49 year old, who's owned a '99 Bonneville SE, still owns a 2004 Grand Prix-GT, and also still own the '79 Formula I bought new, plus a recently adopted '79 T/A my 15-year old son and I are working on as a project. My love for these cars started when my Dad bought a '66 Bonneville new in the fall of that year, so I've been hooked on this marque since I was 7.

Another reality is that the older market of 55+ also has considerable income at their disposal. Money talks, and this is a large & growing demographic group that has the time and money to spend on cars. Regarding Buick, the brand is also wildly popular in China, which has a burgeoning middle-class that for whatever reason loves Buicks.

Again, the common denominator is money, and GM as well as the other brands out there cater to the portions of the population with money to spend on their products.

We die-hard enthusiasts had a great opportunity to flex our buying power muscles when the new GTO came out. Instead we complained it had a "Chevy" engine, was produced in Australia, didn't have enough GTO character, had an ugly badge, blah, blah, blah... These cars are amazingly fast, handle amazingly well and deliver terrific fuel mileage. That GM made such a car in today's automotive world was a major victory. All we did was complain.

That likely sealed our fate in terms of their listening to our "voice".

Pontiac is gone, GM will likely follow. All we can do is hang on for the ride and treasure the fine cars we still have and move on with our lives, sans Pontiac.

Sincerely,


Kevin in Arizona... die hard Pontiac fan, navigating the realities of today's world!  

Well I love the latest GTO, it's the only Pontiac name that was left. I thought it spit in the face of FORD and it's retro stuff. I want one, but now that times have changed I won't be able to buy one for several years to come. I would love to afford a new Pontiac, but my family comes first, I don't make enough to afford one, and Pontiac doesn't build one I can afford. If it means not breaking the bank to get a car so the family has money to live, then I buy used, yes that's right, used Pontiac's. But still I buy Pontiac's, not the best deal, not the most economical.  

I have to agree with Pontiacman8, Pontiac Motor Division died in 1981 and anything past that is just a mere shadow of what Pontiac once was, basically a chevy in pontiac's clothing (no offense to 3rd,4th gen firebird, new gto fans), but it does still piss me off why they chose pontiac over buick or GMC... WTF every gmc is a chevy with its own badge,its the same damn thing, why need two of the same brand? ARG!!!  

Dear The Pontiac Consumer Support Team,

What you really dont understand is the Pontiac customer will never look at Buick.  Buick is not in our blood.  Buick has never had the style that drives our passion for cars, Pontiac did.  The new Camaro is nice, but it does not set my heart on fire.  A Firebird version would look way more aggressive with quad headlights, split grill, hood scoop (either TA or Formula version), t-tops, and those beautiful 69 taillights.  I can picture it in Lucerne Blue.  You will not find us in a Chevy dealership.
Pontiacs are style, performance and youth-oriented.  The Buick image is definitely not style or youth-oriented.  Style maybe if your 55 and older.  So why grow the product offering of Buick or GMC?  Buick customers want quiet, roomy 4 doors with a torquey engine.  What is there to grow?  Buick has that already.  How many of the same styled cars can Buick make.  Pontiac customers are not looking for those qualities.  So if you grow Buick to be more youthful, why waste the money to change the image when you already have that in Pontiac.  GMC and Chevy trucks/suv's are the same.  Is there really that big a difference what the customer is looking for in a truck/suv that they prefer one over the other.

So to have 2 luxury car divisions and two truck divisions and executing the youthful division makes no sense.  Sales from Pontiac have been weak because you are out of tune with what the Pontiac consumer is looking for.  What is there to pass on to our children when for decades Pontiac has been rebadged Chevys.  You are finally getting it right with the Solstice and G8 (G names awful) and now you are pulling a Fiero on us.  Would not be difficult to help the Pontiac lineup,  
but that would require car enthusiasts to do it.  Car enthusiasts have been missing from GM for a long time.  GM will continue to lose customers with decisions like this.  I will not shop GM.  You have lost a customer for good.

Sincerely,

John C.

P.S. - Great to see the passion pouring out from the Pontiac fans.  Be pissed Kirk, because a lot of us are.  

Steve,

Your position on Pontiac is not in tune with the Pontiac faithful.  Its not just a brand, its the way your Pontiac makes you feel while driving it.  You obviously dont get that feeling, which is called passion, so sell your 79 Formula to someone who loves Pontiacs and go by a Dodge Caliber.
How long should a dealership carry parts for their car?
And since "That's the American way", lets just accept it!  Great advice.  Once again you show no passion.  Its great to see Kirk and many others showing passion.  Apply your energy to saving Pontiac, if you do care.

Sincerely,

John C.  

Check some of the other posts on here, I'm not the only one who feels this way. You want passion? Come for a spin in my Formula, it's all Pontiac! Not some half-breed with a "me too" Chevy motor and it has lasted for 30 years in the rust belt environment. The 97 GP I had is only 12 years old and will soon be ready for the crusher judging from it's appearance last time I saw it. Yes, I loved driving it and blowing away Z28's with my 4 door family car (passion?) but the poor thing was built out of tin foil. I'm not the Dodge kind of guy either, they quit building nice cars about 1974. By the way, Chrysler filed bankruptcy yesterday too, so don't expect me to rush out for their overpriced junk either.
Oh, by the way, I am applying my energy to saving A Pontiac, one I care about. I figure for the cost of a new G-whiz car (take your pick), and the interest and insurance premiums, I can afford to own 2 or 3 fully restored Pontiacs that will be worth alot more in ten or 20 years than the G car. Think about it!
Steve  
Trying to help... 'cause we don't all have to learn the hard way!

"Check some of the other posts on here, I'm not the only one who feels this way. You want passion? Come for a spin in my Formula, it's all Pontiac!"
- What's riding in your Formula got to do with saving the brand....NOTHING!!


"Not some half-breed with a "me too" Chevy motor"
- Yes I agree it was a shame that the 90 degree V8 by Pontiac is nomore, it would have been nice to see it live on. I don't believe in swapping a chevy LS into a classic Pontiac, but that's not what this is about! It's about saving Pontiac and hopefully with enough passion and influence they will make it Pontiac with power again! Pontiac styling, Pontiac names, and with luck Pontiac Power! We have to take it one step at a time! First save Pontiac, then actually fight to get Pontiac back on widetrack. I'm going to guess you just sat by and watched Pontiac lose it's identity over the years. I didn't, I emailed GM, Pontiac, and bitched at the dealerships about things I didn't like about the lineup! If more people did that, then maybe they would have listened. If the magazines would have done more than just review the cars for what they were maybe that would have helped, but just blowing it off and moving away from Pontiac loyalty to a more passive role helped to kill our brand!!

"Oh, by the way, I am applying my energy to saving A Pontiac, one I care about. I figure for the cost of a new G-whiz car (take your pick), and the interest and insurance premiums, I can afford to own 2 or 3 fully restored Pontiac's that will be worth alot more in ten or 20 years than the G car."
-Good for you, but as reliable, as good on gas? NO! Better in a crash yes!!

"The other point is that GM is being forced to cut wherever they can to keep the parent company afloat so the overpaid execs can pull another couple of years worth of pay and bonuses before they bankrupt the whole company. Letters and protests won't change that, it is driven by pure greed. That's the American way, unfortunately."
-You're right about everything but the letters and protests! Also the most unfortunate American way is to sit idly by on your *ss and do nothing while this sorta thing happens. Guess I'm un-American then cause I'm not!!

"I seriously don't care if the Pontiac brand name goes away because that's all that it is...a brand name."
-And that folks it why it happens!!

If you don't care about the brand, then why are you wasting your time and ours in fighting against those of us who want to actually save it? To me you're no better than the GM execs who killed our brand, maybe even worse cause you own one. Don't like the fight, then go away for the sake of those who want to keep Pontiac alive and work to get it to where it should be.  

As being a Ford guy for most of life, I am sad that Pontiac is being done away with. I had orginally planned on buying a Mustang or Glaxie but I found a nice 4th gen firebird and I bought it. Since September, I had been patroling the Pontiac forums and I can see why everybody is upset. Though not a "true" Pontiac loyalist, I have seen and talked to the true Pontiac Hardcore Loyalists. No matter if I know more about Ford, I'm Sad to see this great company go!!! I plan on hanging on to my Firebird for many years because of the people in these many forums over the last couple of months. My 94 was once a 3.4 V6 but I am working on a 75 Pontiac 350 to swap in. Although not planning on Pontiac going under, this my tribute to the great Pontiac Automobile as we know it. I would rather buy a piece of *** G.M. or Ford than a brand new import or Chrysler. This is a sad day for G.M. and I would rather see G.M.C. or the Hummer, Sabb brand go than Pontiac.



Dave