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67 Firebird 400 engine build
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Posted: 10/03/09 02:18 AM
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I need some advise on rebuilding a 400 for a 67 Firebird. The engine is a 76 400 with 6X heads. I am looking to build it for street and strip use and for around 400 to 450 hp to the wheels. I have read How to build Max-performance Pontiac V-8s and I have got a pretty good idea of the parts I want to use and I'm looking for any suggestions. These are my ideas: I want to ask my Machine shop to bore the engine .03 over, Port and Polish the heads with intake runners matched, and get 9:1 to 9.5:1 cr by zero decking the block and milling the heads to the necessary amount. I have a Edelbrock performer RPM intake. -Edelbrock 650 carb. -stock 6x heads -good stock rods -good stock crank -th400 trany Looking to buy: -Sealed Power Cast Pistons -Comp Cams 274 Xetreme Energy K-kit (includes lifters, valve springs, retainers, locks and stem seals) -Molly Rings -Clevite 77 Main, Rod, and Cam bearings -Melling Oil pump -ARP Bolt set
If anyone sees any problems I'm going to run into with this setup, my goals, or machine work please let me know or any suggestions would be great!! Thanks
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Posted: 10/03/09 06:13 AM
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I would have ARP rod bolts in installed in those stock rods as well. The 650CFM carb. will probably be on the small side for this engine. If it was mine I would go with a Lunati voodoo cam P#LUN-60903 instead but the combo looks pretty good.
professional hi-performance engine builder
Horsepower sells engines and torque wins races
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Posted: 10/03/09 09:17 AM
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You will probably get by with the later model block but if you are serious I would look around for an earlier model that is a heavier casting. 67 to 72 would be good. Cast pistons will not do it long term. Think about some of the hypers. I have a set of 6X-8s on my 400 and they are just OK. If you have 6X-4s you maybe OK. If you have them and the block milled to up the compression don't forget to have the intake milled also or you will have serious vacume leaks. King bearings seem to do a good job for me. The ARP rod bolts are a must. The 600-650 carbs are good for the street but 750-800 would be better for the strip. I have had bad luck with Comp lifters that come with their kit. I never could get an answer from them why but they are visiably different than the set that is sold seperately that work great. I used the BOP rear main seal and their one piece pan gasket and am very satisfied with them. Spendy but seem to be worth it.
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Posted: 10/03/09 06:00 PM
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Thank you guys for the suggestions. I don't know much about cams, but I was just curious what Pontiacman8 likes better about Lunati cams. 65pmdgto1, what would be some good pistons to replace the cast ones that won't kill my budget? Also, I'm curious what kind of problems you've had with the Comp cam lifters that come in the kit? Will the 76 block be ok as long as I don't take it over 450 hp? I was also wondering if I have the heads milled to up the compression, will I have any push rod problems, or is there any other new parts I need to buy for the heads other than what comes in the kit? Sorry for all the little questions, but I'm still learning and I would like to get this build done right the first time. I am open for anyother help I can get. Oh, and are stock rods ok for 450 hp if I have them checked out? Thanks a lot!!!
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Posted: 10/03/09 06:14 PM
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It really is not the Hp level I would worry about on the stock rods it is the Rpm's the engine will be turning arp rod bolts are a must and have the rods resized. If the max. Rpm is going to be 5500 or less you should be fine. I prefer the Lunati cams because I have never had any problems out of them and they perform very well. A buddy of mine had problems with comps lifters the problem he had is that they would not pump up. I would not mill a hole lot off of those heads other wise you may get into more problems then its worth.
professional hi-performance engine builder
Horsepower sells engines and torque wins races
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Posted: 10/04/09 02:43 AM
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Thanks Pontiacman8, I really appreciate the information. I just got done looking at the Lunati cams and I think the Lunati voodoo cam P#LUN-6090 that you mentioned will be great!! I have another question for you, how much milling is too much on the heads? If I have the block zero decked, how much will have to come off the 6x heads to get 9:1 to 9.5:1 cr? Also, I was just reading about the importance of the machine shop using a torque plate when honing the cylinders, the machine shop I was planning to use doesn't have one. I live in Arkansas and I was wondering if you know where would be the closest shop to take my block to that has a torque plate for 400 engines, or where I might buy one? Most of them I've seen are around $400, but if I have to pay to ship my engine a few hundred miles and back to get it done somewhere, it might almost pay for itself? Any suggestions? There has to be a machine shop in arkansas with a pontiac 400 torque plate. Yet, I've spent the last hour or so searching for one online and can't find one. How much engine life is cut off by not honing with a torque plate? Thanks
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Posted: 10/04/09 09:57 AM
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I like the KB Silverlites. They only have 2 valve releifs, makes it hard for your machinist to mount them backwarks. Plus more compression they advertize +6cc and 2 less valve releifs. They are a hyper piston and not much more money than a cast piston. I had the same problem PM8 mentioned the Comp kit lifters would not pump up until I went with the seperate set. Very fustrating and costly and know help from them or the vender. As far as the torgue plate thing goes you will not happy with job if you let some shop do it without one. You are close to Indiana the home of most Pro Stock racers you should be able to find a shop there or in St.Louis.. Check around for any Pontiac clubs in your area, they may own one or know who has one. It's been my experience that you should have one shop do all the work the block, crank, rods, and heads. Even if they have to send the crank out of house, they know who does good work. You always want your crank back too, not some welded up junker that they just swap you for. So if there is a problem later they cann't blame their mistake on the other guy. Even then there is no guaranty that everything you pay for will be perfect. It's too bad but that the way it is today in America. Makes me wish for the days when you could go to junk yard and pick out a motor with very low miles. With a cam and intake change have years of trouble free street rod use. When you talk motor and HP remember PM8s logo HP sells motors torgue wins races that's the key. You can make 450 HP and lose everytime to somebody with a 400 ftlb 4500 RPM red line motor. It's all in the combo.
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Posted: 10/04/09 10:14 AM
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What 6X heads do you have 6X-4,6X-8 or 6X-11.
professional hi-performance engine builder
Horsepower sells engines and torque wins races
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Posted: 10/04/09 05:48 PM
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Thank you for the info 65pmdgto1, I will look into the KB Silverlites. They sound like they would be good for what I'm trying to do. Do you know where I can get the best deal on a set of them? But anyways, I have decided to go with the Lunati Voodoo cam that Pontiacman8 mentioned, is everything good that comes with that kit? I found one for $450, is that a good deal? Is there anything other than what comes in the kit that I should order? But as far as the machine shop goes, I have a guy that I really trust that I'm planning get all my machine work done by, including the head porting, the only problem is he doesn't have a torque plate. So I guess I'll find someone who does and let them do the bore work and then take the engine back to the guy I know well and let him do the rest. Thanks for everything, if you have any other opinions on my set up please let me know. Thanks
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Posted: 10/04/09 06:20 PM
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What all comes in the kit? I have never got anything bad from Lunati.
professional hi-performance engine builder
Horsepower sells engines and torque wins races
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Posted: 10/04/09 06:27 PM
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Pontiacman8, I think the heads are 6x-8s because they came off a 75 Bonneville. The heads are at my parents house, so I cant check them for sure until next weekend. thanks
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Posted: 10/04/09 06:47 PM
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LUNATI FLAT TAPPET CAMSHAFT #60903 LUNATI LIFTERS #71951PR LUNATI DOUBLE ROLLER TIMING CHAIN #93016LUN LUNATI VALVE SPRINGS #73949 LUNATI RETAINERS #75702LUN LUNATI VALVE LOCKS #77034 LUNATI VALVE STEM SEALS #71025 LUNATI ASSEMBLY LUBE #72504
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Posted: 10/04/09 07:16 PM
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Don't forget push rods and maybe some roller tip rockers. I put the ARP rocker studs in mine ,for Chevrolet, so it would be an adjustable set up. Summit or Jeg's is a good place to start looking at the pistons. Probably the same price maybe a little cheaper from one to the other for freight and handleing charges.
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Posted: 10/04/09 07:36 PM
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65pmdgto1, thanks for the reply, what would be some good push rods to buy that would be good for this cam kit that are not too expensive? Should I go with Lunati or what would you suggest? A part # would be great. Thanks for all the help!!!
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Posted: 10/05/09 02:04 AM
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On a side note, I found another 400 engine! The date Code is F293 and casting number is 481988. And it has X5 on the front. Is this 73 block any stronger than the 76 block I have?
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