|
|
Item Posts
Sort Order
|
|
|
Elec. fuel pump & pressure regulator
|
69GTOby
Enthusiast
| Posts: 318
| Joined: 02/09
Posted: 02/07/10 09:33 PM
|
|
I want to replace my old fuel pump on my '69 GTO. Fuel keeps finding its way into the oil. It has a brand new 750 Holley and it runs pretty well. The 400 engine has a bunch of miles and some oil pressure issues. I think the cause of which is the fuel in the oil. I highly suspect the old fuel pump has a ruptured diaphragm. So, if I can squeeze a few more miles out of the old tired 400 before I rebuild it, I will. This will be my last shot at it before I bite the bullet and pull the engine.
The idea for this car is a nice street/strip car. I figure I might as well upgrade to an electric in-line fuel pump and a regulator while I am at it. Is that a worth while conversion, or is that strictly beneficial for only race applications? Any recommendations for fuel pumps and/or pressure regulators?
**** 1969 GTO resto in progress. '76 350 w/ 6X heads, HEI dist, LT headers, Edelbrock intake, 650 Holley. TH400 trans w/shift kit. 350 is temporary till 400 is built. 400 will have forged internals, #13's, cam, headers, roller rockers, Edelbrock intake, 750 Holley.
|
|
|
|
My71
Enthusiast
| Posts: 289
| Joined: 02/10
Posted: 02/08/10 04:41 PM
|
|
I'd be very careful with getting fuel into the oil for 2 reasons: 1. Is the oil degraded enough to severly reduce it's lubrication qualities? 2. Is there a possibility of vapor flash off that could ignite? (since as gas get's warmer it flashes off faster)
I'm not sure about the inline fuel pump. I thought about the same thing, but had a mechanic tell me if I wasn't racing the car and turning 6,000+ RPM's that might reduce the fuel pressure at WOT, then it wasn't necessary.
|
|
|
|
69GTOby
Enthusiast
| Posts: 318
| Joined: 02/09
Posted: 02/08/10 05:17 PM
|
|
The oil is dark black, smells like fuel, and feels very thinned out. I'm running 15W-40 Rotella oil and that stuff is pretty thick. I am guessing that it is degraded enough to severely reduce lubrication qualities especially when it gets real hot after running the engine for awhile.
I suppose there is a possibility of vapor lock, since that is infamous for occurring on old cars like these with mechanical fuel pumps on the block and fuel lines near exhaust and stuff.
I think an electric fuel pump would reduce fuel temperatures and prevent vapor lock..
**** 1969 GTO resto in progress. '76 350 w/ 6X heads, HEI dist, LT headers, Edelbrock intake, 650 Holley. TH400 trans w/shift kit. 350 is temporary till 400 is built. 400 will have forged internals, #13's, cam, headers, roller rockers, Edelbrock intake, 750 Holley.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 02/08/10 05:57 PM
|
|
There should be vent holes in the side of your pump that prevent this in the case of a blown diaphragm. The design of the part is such that you would probably notice a power loss and smell the gas puddle before you get gas in the oil. Now an Olds, on the other hand, is designed to load up the crankcase with gas in that event.
Do you by chance have a Quadrajet carb? They can leak the bowl dry into the intake while the engine is off, down an open valve, past the rings....
Just my humble thoughts. I like 10-30 Rotella
|
|
|
|
69GTOby
Enthusiast
| Posts: 318
| Joined: 02/09
Posted: 02/08/10 07:08 PM
|
|
I have a 750 Holley 4160 carb. There is no external gas leak. It is very possible the pump has been changed to one that doesn't have the weep hole that you're talking about. The car is a '69 with a '70 400 engine. No idea of the history.. I'm going to pull the pump off tomorrow and see what I can see.
Somehow, fuel is entering the crankcase, thinning out the oil, and lowering my oil pressure with a hot engine. .
**** 1969 GTO resto in progress. '76 350 w/ 6X heads, HEI dist, LT headers, Edelbrock intake, 650 Holley. TH400 trans w/shift kit. 350 is temporary till 400 is built. 400 will have forged internals, #13's, cam, headers, roller rockers, Edelbrock intake, 750 Holley.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 02/08/10 08:55 PM
|
|
Hmmm- do tell
|
|
|
|
69GTOby
Enthusiast
| Posts: 318
| Joined: 02/09
Posted: 02/10/10 06:11 PM
|
|
Well, I took the car out and played with it yesterday. I played with the timing and the carb, but I could not get a steady vacuum. The plugs, wires, and distributor are good/new. The engine has good cranking and dynamic compression in all cylinders, the carb is brand new.. The engine seems to run best with the timing set at about 38*, which is ridiculous. Something ain't right. The balancer wobbles a bit while it's running, maybe it moved..
I did not see any fuel leaking out of the fuel pump externally, and I didn't bother to take it off either. The pump looks like it might just fall off, haha. Bottom line is - This engine is old, leaky, tired, and needs freshened up. I'll just pull it out, and swap in a 350 temporarily while I build the 400.
I will probably give it an electric fuel pump and regulator. I'll replace the old rusty mechanical fuel pump anyway, so I might as well upgrade to electric, right? Any suggestions???
**** 1969 GTO resto in progress. '76 350 w/ 6X heads, HEI dist, LT headers, Edelbrock intake, 650 Holley. TH400 trans w/shift kit. 350 is temporary till 400 is built. 400 will have forged internals, #13's, cam, headers, roller rockers, Edelbrock intake, 750 Holley.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 02/10/10 06:44 PM
|
|
For a street car that isn't going to be seriously raced, I wouldn't bother with the added expense and hassle of an electric pump. They are noisy and a pain to properly plumb. An electric pump is designed to be gravity fed, the correct way is to have a sump installed in the bottom of the fuel tank or fuel cell with the pump mounted very close so the fuel feeds directly into the pump. The regulator is typically mounted near the motor on the fenderwell. Don't think you can just remove the mechanical pump and extend the lines over to the fender and mount the electric pump in the engine bay, heat buildup around town combined with the pump's lack of self-priming will lead to vapor lock issues...not fun! A stock mechanical pump will be fine up to 350hp on the street, that's what the factory used! I bought a brand new Carter stock replacement pump off Ebay for $15 plus $10 shipping and it came with the gasket! Steve
A little help... 'cause we don't all have to learn the hard way!
|
|
|
|
69GTOby
Enthusiast
| Posts: 318
| Joined: 02/09
Posted: 02/10/10 07:35 PM
|
|
Hmmm the thing is, my 400 makes 350hp in stock form. It's got a 3 angle valve job, LT headers, and a 750 cfm. My plans for rebuilding it include what it already has, plus forged rods and pistons, a cam, an Edelbrock performer intake, and possibly some full roller rockers too, as far as performance. So it should have around 380 hp and maybe 480 lbs/ft of torque - something like that. But, if I can avoid the issues involved with an electric set up, and not sacrifice noticeable, that will be fine with me. A nice mechanical pump should be sufficient for my set up then, right?
**** 1969 GTO resto in progress. '76 350 w/ 6X heads, HEI dist, LT headers, Edelbrock intake, 650 Holley. TH400 trans w/shift kit. 350 is temporary till 400 is built. 400 will have forged internals, #13's, cam, headers, roller rockers, Edelbrock intake, 750 Holley.
|
|
|
|
flynryan
User
| Posts: 150
| Joined: 01/09
Posted: 02/10/10 08:40 PM
|
|
A nice mechanical pump will keep up fine, as you are not running it full out in 3rd gear on a race track. From a Pontiac specialty shop like Butler you can now get pumps similar to Big Chevy for Pontiac. 550hp, and even a 1100hp mechanical pumps. But try off the shelf first like Carter first.
|
|
|
|
69GTOby
Enthusiast
| Posts: 318
| Joined: 02/09
Posted: 02/11/10 03:06 PM
|
|
Okay, that sounds good to me. What maximum pressure, and what flow rate would be best for me? Is a regulator still a idea with the mechanical pump?
**** 1969 GTO resto in progress. '76 350 w/ 6X heads, HEI dist, LT headers, Edelbrock intake, 650 Holley. TH400 trans w/shift kit. 350 is temporary till 400 is built. 400 will have forged internals, #13's, cam, headers, roller rockers, Edelbrock intake, 750 Holley.
|
|
|
|
flynryan
User
| Posts: 150
| Joined: 01/09
Posted: 02/11/10 09:43 PM
|
|
Mechanical pumps are self regulated. They should produce between 3-7psi. It is good the verify this with a gauge on a new pump. After that, you will notice driving if it starts to go.
|
|
|
|
69GTOby
Enthusiast
| Posts: 318
| Joined: 02/09
Posted: 02/13/10 10:13 PM
|
|
Some of the pumps advertise maximum pressures of 6.5 or 7 or 8 or so. Also they advertise flow rates of 80 gph or 120 or so.
I'm thinking I'll get Carter P/N: GM6122. It's rated at 5.5 to 6.5 psi and 120 gph. It is $35 from Summit. Is that a good pick?
**** 1969 GTO resto in progress. '76 350 w/ 6X heads, HEI dist, LT headers, Edelbrock intake, 650 Holley. TH400 trans w/shift kit. 350 is temporary till 400 is built. 400 will have forged internals, #13's, cam, headers, roller rockers, Edelbrock intake, 750 Holley.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|