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Engine Failure 1973 455. Any help is appreciated!

  
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Engine Failure 1973 455. Any help is appreciated!

 
theron theron
User | Posts: 98 | Joined: 03/11
Posted: 11/02/11
05:23 PM

The engine:

1973 455 Y-code block. Bored .060 over. Crank turned .030 over. Forged pistons. Moly rings. OEM rods, lifters, rockers, etc. 6x-8 heads. Luminati cam. Heads and engine professionally machined and checked before assembly. Edelbrock Performer RPM Intake. Holley 750 Carb. Hooker headers to 2.5'' exhaust. TH400 transmission. Running Valvoline VR-1 Oil after 2 changes of Comp Cams break-in oil. Total mileage: 1230miles.

Problems: Noisy valve train on passenger side. vibration. Metal in the oil.

After disassembly: burned cam bearings. Small score on one lifter (maybe from a metal shard). Damaged crank and crank bearings (appeared to have been "pushed forward".

Engine always ran cool, but with high pressure in the cooling system. Never overheated. Never ran more than a quart low at any time. Break-in went well, but rings never properly seated (smoked on startup).

Does anyone have any idea what might have caused the oil starvation to the cam bearings?

Thank you!  

 
BlownCenturion455 BlownCenturion455
New User | Posts: 3 | Joined: 08/11
Posted: 11/02/11
06:38 PM

Easy way to find out is to send your oil to a lab for testing.
By the type of metal found will help isolate the problem cheaply and quickly without pulling the motor.

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/  

 
waynep7122 waynep7122
Enthusiast | Posts: 673 | Joined: 08/09
Posted: 11/02/11
10:25 PM

just curious.. have you go through this article

http://www.circletrack.com/enginetech/ctrp_1110_engine_failure_analysis/index.html  

 
waynep7122 waynep7122
Enthusiast | Posts: 673 | Joined: 08/09
Posted: 11/02/11
10:46 PM

thats not the article i thought it was..

do you have a decent set of micrometers.. so you can measure the bearing bore sizes...

its really easy to overlook some FOD in engines if you don't triple check...

i have personally always driven the freeze plugs in first.. just prior to anything else going in.. so i can see if there is any debris that falls out..    rotating the block on the stand.. i also have taken to having the head surface vertical when running the tap in to clean the head bolt holes.. so i can rotate the block so the holes face downward to rid any debris from the hole..



i got one engine a long time ago.. from a local mid size rebuilder.. had cleaning steel ball cones in 4 cylinders..  they denied using them in the shop.. said i must have put them there.. i knew a guy who worked there.. he told me they did have them in their small parts tumblers.. how they got inside the engine???????????  

 
pepsi1 pepsi1
User | Posts: 184 | Joined: 09/11
Posted: 11/03/11
01:15 AM

Just looking at what you have written, I think the oil pump cavitated. Real junk oil pump, that thin plate probably flexed. Then everything oil lubricated went dry and what went first would be hard to tell without pictures. But the mains being pushed forward, the cam bearings spinning, that's my guess the oil pump went dry for what reason ? That sucks.  

 
tuffnuff tuffnuff
Moderator | Posts: 2062 | Joined: 12/09
Posted: 11/03/11
07:35 AM

Oil starvation would be my guess.,. Pontiac oil pumps have a thin metal cover plate than can bow and deflect between the bolts, when oil pressure spikes.
I've pulled pumps apart and found evidence of black streaks between the fasteners, this is oil going where it shouldn't.
I use a 1/4" cover plate on my pumps.,. and no problem.

 
When The Flag Drops,,,

tuffnuff

The Bull Chit Stops,,,
tuffnuff

P. Engineer, Engine Builder

 
Pontiacman8 Pontiacman8
Moderator | Posts: 5426 | Joined: 02/08
Posted: 11/03/11
11:04 AM

+1 that thin steal plate just don't cut it when the oil pressure gets up there.  
Horsepower sells engines and torque wins races

Pontiacman8
Pontiacman8
Pontiacman8

 
tuffnuff tuffnuff
Moderator | Posts: 2062 | Joined: 12/09
Posted: 11/03/11
01:42 PM

Yup, the early SD pumps had a beefy plate and I remember them well.,. the first 350 and 400 engines i took apart, left me shaking my head,,,,, why!
To save 50 cents worth of metal?

 
When The Flag Drops,,,

tuffnuff

The Bull Chit Stops,,,
tuffnuff

P. Engineer, Engine Builder

 
Pontiacman8 Pontiacman8
Moderator | Posts: 5426 | Joined: 02/08
Posted: 11/03/11
01:50 PM

Ya I remember when you could get the dyna gear oil pumps and they had the thick plate.


I think it was in 1975-76 when they went to the thin wimpy plate.  
Horsepower sells engines and torque wins races

Pontiacman8
Pontiacman8
Pontiacman8

 
tuffnuff tuffnuff
Moderator | Posts: 2062 | Joined: 12/09
Posted: 11/03/11
02:07 PM

I noticed it on my 76 TA and used 1/4" cold rolled steel plate, to make my own back then.
Been doing it ever since.

 
When The Flag Drops,,,

tuffnuff

The Bull Chit Stops,,,
tuffnuff

P. Engineer, Engine Builder

 
Pontiacman8 Pontiacman8
Moderator | Posts: 5426 | Joined: 02/08
Posted: 11/03/11
02:39 PM

Ya some where around that time is when they went to the thin el cheapo plate.  
Horsepower sells engines and torque wins races

Pontiacman8
Pontiacman8
Pontiacman8

 
Opontee Opontee
Guru | Posts: 1108 | Joined: 07/09
Posted: 11/03/11
03:03 PM

What kind of oil filter was on it? With this statement here: Noisy valve train on passenger side. You might want to look at the pipe plug for the oil galley on that side. You know the one in front of the distributor at the rear of the engine. Maybe it wasn't tightened up and came loose. That would cause a lack of oil pressure and gall up some lifters, which metal shavings would get into the rest of the engine.  
Opontee
Opontee
Anna Mae quit. Opontee

 
Pontiacman8 Pontiacman8
Moderator | Posts: 5426 | Joined: 02/08
Posted: 11/03/11
03:08 PM

+1 that is possible.  
Horsepower sells engines and torque wins races

Pontiacman8
Pontiacman8
Pontiacman8

 
fastoneefi fastoneefi
Enthusiast | Posts: 269 | Joined: 01/10
Posted: 11/03/11
03:45 PM

Pontiacman8:
+1 that is possible.

X2
Plus you have a few problems here, the rings not seating is curious as well. This would have me questioning the quality of machine work done.
You said the crank looked like it was pushed forward, that's normally an incorrect thrust setup.
Were the cam bearings installed properly? Did they spin or are they just wiped out?

Lots of questions to be answered here.  
Mark
Engine builder, Erson and Lunati Cams Dealer and Accel DFI Tech/Dealer, located in Central Florida

 
tuffnuff tuffnuff
Moderator | Posts: 2062 | Joined: 12/09
Posted: 11/04/11
01:18 AM



Yup, I'm real curious what happened here.,. hope we find out the cause.

 
When The Flag Drops,,,

tuffnuff

The Bull Chit Stops,,,
tuffnuff

P. Engineer, Engine Builder

 
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