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Moderator Speak Easy

 
tuffnuff tuffnuff
Moderator | Posts: 2534 | Joined: 12/09
Posted: 02/19/12
08:29 AM

I, as Moderator on several forums, have chosen not to recommend anything, or say little or nothing, for some time now.,. I believe Pman will do the same, for numerous reasons.
We are not required to take personal assaults or abuse from posters.,. our job is to keep things civil on forums, nothing more,,,,,,,,,,, nothing less.
There was a time time when our input was much appreciated, but that time has passed.
Or so it seems.

Smile  
When The Flag Drops.,.

tuffnuff

The Bull ***t Stops.,.
tuffnuff

P. Engineer, Engine Builder

pattigp67 pattigp67
Enthusiast | Posts: 557 | Joined: 05/09
Posted: 02/19/12
12:16 PM

I for one, very much appreciate you and P-Man both Tuff!! I am very sorry to hear that you will not be heard from!! As you know, you and P-Man have both just given me some very valuable advice, and saved me a lot of money! Can I still ask for your advice on my other projects? So pathetic that people would attack you or P-Man in anyway, shape or form when you both have valuable advice and knowledge to share with this community, and I am sure, in the others.  These people should be ashamed of themselves.  They must be lacking in some part of themselves to do something like this, IMHO.  

tuffnuff tuffnuff
Moderator | Posts: 2534 | Joined: 12/09
Posted: 02/19/12
01:29 PM

Patti, I've been at this for years now and offered my sincerest advice and opinions.,. on how I would or would not do something.
This blatant honesty has consequences if we post something that is not to their liking, in the form of being singled out and confronted in a rude manner, to say the least.
A long time ago, I asked Pman to co-mod with me on this forum.,. because I felt that his all around knowledge was unparralelled.
I also had him co-mod on a Chevy site.,. where we came under attack and we have since posted only on rare occasion with usually only one liners.,. the place has turned, for the most part into a ghost town.
Pman has indicated several times that he's had well enough, and each time I woo him back to the fold.
I won't do that anymore, because of the lack of interest by the regulars.,. IF, they're not interested, then why should we be interested in maintaining this or any other forum.
I'm sure that sound advice is still available in PM's.,. but, speaking for myself.,. I've lost any serious appetite to be an active participant on public forums.
I appreciate the fact that you are the only caring one,,, that responded to this post.
I hope this forum does well.,. sailing without sail or rudder into the blue yonder.
Best of luck.

Smile  
When The Flag Drops.,.

tuffnuff

The Bull ***t Stops.,.
tuffnuff

P. Engineer, Engine Builder

gto66 gto66
Enthusiast | Posts: 489 | Joined: 11/08
Posted: 02/19/12
02:39 PM

??? Tuff I guess I am in the dark on this one. I have always looked forward to your and pmams comments. I have not been on here alot lately due to other personal things in life requiring my time. I don't have any engine building experiance so I just check post without comments. But growing up through the "Pontiac years" owning several performance Pontiacs I will comment on things I have knowledge about.

So I hope you and pman will stick around and share your knowledge.

Bob  

tuffnuff tuffnuff
Moderator | Posts: 2534 | Joined: 12/09
Posted: 02/19/12
03:26 PM

Check out the thread "Help picking out a cam! Poncho 400" and you'll begin to understand that problems have been festering for a long time.
I'm weary of brokering peace and from now on I'll issue a warning and simply
eliminate problems.,. by locking or deleting a thread, if that fails, banning a user altogether will follow. Case closed.
I hope Pman returns, cuz he's been a tremendous help to many

Smile  
When The Flag Drops.,.

tuffnuff

The Bull ***t Stops.,.
tuffnuff

P. Engineer, Engine Builder

pattigp67 pattigp67
Enthusiast | Posts: 557 | Joined: 05/09
Posted: 02/19/12
03:56 PM

Tuff, I cannot tell you how to resolve the issues except to eliminate the problem.  I for one have only known you and P-Man to be a big help to me since I have been on this forum.  I think it is a shame that everyone should be deprived of your knowledge due to a few troublemakers.  I think we should have a vote.  I for one, say to kick them off the forum.  I would really like to have yours, and P-Man's help in the present and future.  The heck with any troublemakers. Get rid of them.  Any serious Pontiac person will feel the same way as me. I have loved Pontiacs, well, for years, and have a few more that need done, and still looking for a '62 Cat, that I would appreciate your advice on.  I say, Get rid of the troublemakers!!!! And let's keep P-Man and Tuff's voices giving us advice on here!! They know what they are talking about, and we need them on here, not just to moderate, but to help!!!  

pattigp67 pattigp67
Enthusiast | Posts: 557 | Joined: 05/09
Posted: 02/19/12
04:02 PM

Also, Tuff, the thing that kills me is, they are not PAYING for your advice, they can take it or leave it.  SO WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?!?!?!  Why do they have an issue with your adivice? Because they did not think of it first? I will shut up now. This really, really ticks me off. Why do people get hateful because of FREE ADVICE!?!?!  

Mr.Milt Mr.Milt
Guru | Posts: 1135 | Joined: 08/08
Posted: 02/19/12
05:21 PM

Tuff both you and PMan have been great Moderators and we all respect your knowledge and experience.  Advice, and Opinions on the form vary and it is not always 100% on the mark for 100% of us but we do try. Our experiences way heavily in what we write and we believe it to be right when we share it - in good faith if you will. Don't let one, two, or a few people keep you from sharing.  Over time the people that can be trusted to give constantly good advice becomes apartment and I have always found both of you to be factual and accurate and exceedingly fair.  

pattigp67 pattigp67
Enthusiast | Posts: 557 | Joined: 05/09
Posted: 02/19/12
05:40 PM

Exactly Milt!! High five!! If they don't like the answer, just ignore, don't be an a** about it.  Tuff and P-Man know their stuff. No one ever agrees on everything, but don't be derogatory and nasty. There is a reason Tuff and P-Man were asked to be Moderators of this forum!! :-)  

barneyformula barneyformula
Addict | Posts: 3298 | Joined: 01/07
Posted: 02/19/12
05:41 PM

I'll address this to both Peter and Bill (Tuff and Pman, I used your first names because I feel this is a personal issue and should be addressed as such).
This is the first opportunity I've had today to check the forum which has become a cyber-second-home for me as I've been busy prepping my house for sale. Seeing this shocked me as it seems to be somewhat petty, both in cause and reaction.
Gentlemen, I think it will come as no surprise to each of you that the vast majority of users on this forum respect and highly regard the information and suggestions that each of you offer on a daily basis. That said, I think it is also prudent to keep one's mind open to other views and opinions.
I've read the many posts regarding cam selection and witnessed the back-and-forth bickering between Bill and Mark (Fastoneefi)over the past few years. I've also been personally involved in a couple of these online ego-fests (remember the whole issue with EKF and my "squirrel" comment pertaining to gear drives? How about the "flood GM with emails" episode where I flatly told a newcomer that GM likely didn't care to hear from him because, as he admitted, he had never bought a NEW Pontiac in his life?). The one thing I came away with was the understanding that MY opinion isn't the only one out there or the only one worth listening to, regardless of how strongly I feel about the subject.
What we need to consider here is that this and any forum is, as Patti noted, free advice and whether the original poster takes that advice is entirely up to them. Our job as the givers of advice is to give them enough info to make an informed decision. When I first came here I didn't know who to believe or who to trust. It was only through time and my own experience that I was able to weed out the good from the bad. We must understand that every new user that comes here has to do the same. They don't know us, they don't know our reputation or our experience. I'm not a "professional engine builder" or "mechanical engineer" or "cam salesman/EFI spokesman" and even if I was, should the new person coming here automatically believe it just because I post it as my tagline? I'm simply a mechanic/technician, part-time truck driver and hobby engine builder with 24 years of practical experience that I'm willing to share when I have the time. I still expect people to ask questions of my advice, that means they are thinking and learning.
Now, back to what I said about being petty. I think this crap between Mark and Bill has gone on long enough and it's time to be big boys. Bill, with all due respect, I've never seen you give bad advice, but you need to lighten up and explain why you choose a specific cam sometimes. Don't get your back up everytime Mark shows up, it's not cool. Mark, you too are very good at what you do, I know this because I seriously considered your recommendations for my buildup and only cost and convenience kept me from ordering your custom roller. However, lighten up on Bill, if you would simply explain your reason for picking a different cam (or for defending the poster's choice) rather than taking Bill to task on his love of Lunati cams, then we wouldn't be having this discussion. You are both very knowledgeable guys with plenty of advice to share. Bickering just makes you both look much less than the professionals that we know you are!
Peter, what can I say? You know I hold you in high regard, you basically built my 406 online for me and taught me the value of a good dyno-sim program and I thank you wholeheartedly. But, pulling back and saying that you are not going to post because you are afraid of some yahoos coming around to chastise you and Bill is childish and you are far too mature to be acting that way.
The core of this forum is still strong and we still depend on each of you daily, hiding in a corner does no favor to the forum or the members. Now let's get back to loving our old Pontiacs and keeping the memory of GM's true performance division alive! There are many young people out there that still believe Chevy invented performance!
Steve  
A little help... 'cause we don't all have to learn the hard way!

Retired Red Retired Red
User | Posts: 93 | Joined: 07/10
Posted: 02/19/12
05:49 PM

+1  I enjoy reading and following your posts but my knowledge is limited so I dont say much.  I just enjoy reading and learning.  It will be a tremendous loss for all of us if you two leave us.  Sincerely  Bill  
68 GTO  455/462
498.9 HP 558 TQ

mb68bird mb68bird
Enthusiast | Posts: 468 | Joined: 06/10
Posted: 02/19/12
05:51 PM

tuff dont sweat all those keyboard commandos. when it comes down to it they aint got $hi!& in the first place.  

gto66 gto66
Enthusiast | Posts: 489 | Joined: 11/08
Posted: 02/19/12
06:01 PM

Well put Steve(Barny) !!! Wish my thinking and writing skills was that good!

Bob  

Torqued400 Torqued400
Addict | Posts: 2479 | Joined: 10/08
Posted: 02/19/12
06:06 PM

Trolls  Grin  
"We build Excitement"

pattigp67 pattigp67
Enthusiast | Posts: 557 | Joined: 05/09
Posted: 02/19/12
06:17 PM

Right now I am in the process of getting a 421 tri power rebuilt.  Tuff and P-Man are giving me advice on the way to go.  I had a 428HO rebuilt, and not saying it was not done correctly, but I want to be 'involved' in this one.  These two are A++ ONE teachers as far as I am concerned.  There is a reason that they were asked to be moderators of this forum.  I hope if they leave this board, they will keep in touch with me.  I have 4 cars that need finished.  I would be more than happy to pay them for their advice too.  That is how much I trust them.  

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