Power curves for different Pontiac high compression era engines.

Has anyone seen either an engine or chassis dyno for a auto RAIII, manual RAIII, RAIV to note the power curves? Long tube headers would be preferred so the engine is allowed to scavenge properly.  

If so can you provide a link where to view?  

Check this out.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_V8_engine

 
When The Flag Drops,,,



The Bull Chit Stops,,,


P. Engineer, Engine Builder

Thanks. No dyno charts there unless I missed something.

What RPM do the various camshafts above make peak torque and HP?

How far could these engines by turned to?  

what exactly are you trying to accomplish??

only a few of us have engine dynos.. i don't...


and OEM motors are tuned for drivability not ultra high RPM operation..

from what i understand .. you are asking how much higher in RPMs can the engine operate beyond peak torque and horsepower.....

the trick is.. a single change could and will change the peaks..  which change depends on where it goes..

nascar and prostock teams spend a lot of time on the dyno looking for the changes you are looking to find..  and they don't share secrets..


RPM limiting factor in engines...

ignition abilities..  this is usually not an issue with aftermarket ignitions..

valve train..  spring float.. or reaching the speed of harmonic resonance..

connecting rod bolts.. and connecting rods..   how many RPMs will they withstand

piston strength.    how many RPMs will the pistons withstand before the pins rip out the bottom.

there are computer dyno programs that can calculate what you want.. but i don't mess around with those.. i just fix cars...  

Besides every engine has different results.  

Looking for where the three different type of camshafts make power. Both peak hp and peak torque. Preferably with long tube headers as I note from some of the books dealing with muscle era powerplants that they gained when using long tube headers compared to factory manifolds.

Not looking for beyond peak rpm but what the actual peak outputs are and where generated in terms of what rpm. Purchased and read a few of the original road tests and note a RA II engine floating valves at 5400rpm in one contemporary review in the 1960s and then another where the RAIV turned to 6100rpm without issue and making power. Then there was a test in of the magazines of a RAIII engine with a RAII camshaft which peaked at 5100rpm. Etc.etc.

Since the RAIII auto and manual are identical except for camshaft wanted to see how much more power one made than the other.  

mb68bird:
Besides every engine has different results.

Most factory engine dynos I see contradict that statement.  

I have a MOTOR Auto Repair manual from 1972. It lists, from 1966-1972:

Year
Max HP @ RPM
Max TQ @ RPM
CID
bore and stroke
compression ratio
normal oil pressure

... under general engine specs.

Under Valve specs, it lists:

Year and model (std, ram air, etc.)

valve lash I/E
valve angles seat/face
valve spring installed height
valve spring pressure
stem clearance I/E
stem diameter I/E

I can post pictures of these pages if they contain info that will help. Let me know.  

There were a few articles in MuscleCar Review magazine about 12 years ago (maybe), back when Tom Shaw was the editor. They tested RA3 and RA4 engines in back-to-back issues, unfortunately I no longer have those issues. Maybe someone else has them.
Steve  
A little help... 'cause we don't all have to learn the hard way!

Hello


Waynepp has asked some great questions in an attempt for him and others to best assist you. Based on your answers I can only offer the following, hopefully others can be of more help.

Sorry if this question sounds redundant but as waynepp asked, is there a specific reason behind wanting this very specific information? In other words, are you going to actually use this information to assist you in deciding how you want to build your car or is it purely for informational purposes? The reason I ask is because as far as I interpret your question and know of any dyno comparrison results performed on the exact combinations you are looking for I personally have never seen them which doesn’t mean much but other than the info supplied by others above I would think that if in fact the dyno charts you are specifically requesting ever existed that they may unfortunately be long lost to history by now.

If you want this info for a specific build you or a friend are doing than I’m sure if you supply answers to all questions posed by others that they will be able to help you achieve your goal within reason.

The only possible help I can at this time is to suggest downloading one of the free computer dynos available online. I use the one from compcams.com. It’s painfully easy to do. These dynos will only give you hp and torque numbers based upon their approximation [or averaging]of various intake manifold and exhaust type flows etc . In other words when you click on intake or exhaust type etc it does not list them by mfg and model ie edelbrock, weiand, offy, hooker or hedman and so on. They also have no factory original flow numbers calculated into their program either. For this reason one dyno may offer different results than another to some degree. Even though they do not specifically list any of the items I mentioned above I personally believe they are still a very valuable tool in assisting novices and experienced engine builders alike.  

Hope this info helps.  

I found and bought a copy of the side by side dyno of the RAIII and RAIV. Enroute.

It is for a build. Rather than pick a cam from a catalog I have been taught to find where I want peak power, then how much exhaust I will need and then what overlap I wish to use. So I look at power for essentially stock combos-fortunately designed for high performance from the factory to see their logic. RAIII auto version being the sedate and RAII-IV being radical. They all use the same engine bore/stroke/rod dimensions and the intake flow the same according to this magazine testing so it is a good baseline. I would prefer to see power with headers as I could see these engines be more optimal with long tube 4into 1 headers than manifolds.  

Hello

That's xlnt however you were also asking for a dyno comparrison between an auto and a 4 speed  since you said you read the cams are different and stock vs headers if I understand your post correctly. Did you find that also or is the info you just found going to suffice?  

70bird:
Hello

That's xlnt however you were also asking for a dyno comparrison between an auto and a 4 speed  since you said you read the cams are different and stock vs headers if I understand your post correctly. Did you find that also or is the info you just found going to suffice?

I do not know. But it will be more information than what I had before I wrote the OP.  

I believe the articles I referenced did a comparison of standard log manifolds, RA manifolds and headers on one of the engines tested.
Steve  
A little help... 'cause we don't all have to learn the hard way!