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drag wheels needed

 
chrisaustria chrisaustria
User | Posts: 174 | Joined: 01/13
Posted: 11/26/13
06:12 PM

Hi!

I want to order some drag wheels for my GTO now.
What I need is a 15x8 wheel with 4.75 or more backspace. 5" would be best, 5,5" should work as well but it will shorten my track width. In general, is a smaller or wider "track width" better for drag racing? I guess smaller?

So there are 3 possible wheel choices, please let me know which is best:

1. Circle Racing wheels 15x8, 5inch backspace

I found these wheels, but the Summit service told me that they are not good for drag racing: http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/crw-27580547500/overview/

Do you also think they are a bad choice? Because size and price would be just fine. Weight isn't my biggest concern and aluminium wheels are much more expensive. The car will see the drag strip twice a year and tires are Nitto 555R (275/50/15) It's not a race only car where every lbs counts so if only weight is the Problem with these wheels I don't really care too much.
Are there some other reasons why I should not use Circle Racing wheels or Bart wheels? They are not DOT approved, but I don't want to drive on the street. Is there any danger if I use them for drag? (my 1/8 mile time with 235/60/15 BF Goodrich Radial T/A was 9.2 sec at 78.9mph).


2. US Wheel or Cragar steel wheels, 15x8, 4.75inch backspace

The other wheels I found are US Wheel and Cragar steel rims, 15x8 and 4.75" backspace. Should fit, but I cannot use a bigger tire or it will rub on the outer side. For example: http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/usw-37-5834p/overview/
Weight is about 3lbs more than the Summit aluminium wheel and about 6lbs more than a Weld wheel (which is too expensive for my taste)


3. Summit Fast Five Aluminium wheel, 15x8, 5.5inch backspace

If I would use the wheels with 5.5" backspacing this would shorten my track width about 38mm (1,5"). Not sure if this is a good thing.

http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/sum-521-5862ps/overview/

If needed I could use my 0.25" spacers that I already have at home to get a 5.25" backspacing. If I use these wheels and spacers.. do I need some other lug nuts? I don't want to change the studs.



Please let me know which wheel would be your choice and why.
I like the number 3 the most, but I'm not sure which lug nuts are required and how to mount my 0.25" spacer if I need to.

Thanks!
Chris  

idrivejunk idrivejunk
Addict | Posts: 5000 | Joined: 12/09
Posted: 11/26/13
08:21 PM

I am not a drag racer, but I would prefer aluminum. I would also avoid spacers. Check the rules at your track of choice for wheel / tire / nut rules. Open face lug nuts are preferred (so they can glance and be sure they are on all the way) and be sure to get the right nut seat type for the wheels you choose. A good rule of thumb for lug stud thread engagement is there needs to be one and a half times the diameter of the stud of engaged threads. So for example a half inch stud needs three quarters of an inch of threads in the nut. The car in my signature wears 15x8" wheels with 4-1/4" back space because thats the closest I could find to 4-1/2" let alone 5". They are Cragar Radir wheels from 2005 but they may be discontinued.  
idrivejunk

shyrgfuh1 shyrgfuh1
User | Posts: 70 | Joined: 11/13
Posted: 11/27/13
01:15 AM

hi chrisaustria, hope your car is running well.


i am not the most knowledgeable drag race guy but you will get good info from others but here's what i think.

i would not run any of those wheels. i would not put a 75.00 - 110.00 wheel on any car i was planning on going more than 70 mph in. i would buy centerlines. summit has over 2000 centerlines. if you must have one of those wheels i would pass on the aluminum because it is cast not forged and made in china.

1. 4 second dragsters have a very narrow track in the back so no a narrower track by just a few inches will have 0 effect.

2. 4 second dragsters have bicycle width front tires, so skinny tires on the front are better than 235 x 60 - 15's. yes dragsters are extremely light on the front so you do not want bike tires on a full size car but i think around 6" width is good, personally i would like wider tires for piece of mind at 100 mph plus since i personally would not be going for any records so i might wuss out and go for a 7" wide one.

3. drag guys like to run lighter springs in front, like 6 cyl ones.

4. for rims, have you looked at centerline drag wheels. they have been around forever and i have never heard of one grenading and they are super lite.

Are these for your gto?  

chrisaustria chrisaustria
User | Posts: 174 | Joined: 01/13
Posted: 11/27/13
03:31 AM

It's for my 66 GTO, yes.
I don't want to build a drag race car.. it's just for fun. I'll go to the drag Strip twice a year and want the car to look as much stock as possible. The Nitto tires are not very noticeable if I put them on such rims like the Summit Fast Five (#3) which look very similar to the Weld Prostars.

I also don't want to use small tires on the front, my car will never be a "drag car"... it's just a street car, but I may surprise some others on the strip, so I want the street look and not a race-look.

If spacers are something to avoid, I should get wheels that fit good without it. I'm sure nobody would mind if I had some on my car, they didn't even check the wheels last time. But I don't want to put someone in danger, thats why I asked about the wheels Smile

Centerlines are very lite, I know. Had some mounted on my car.. fantastic!! But they have the wrong look and are very expensive.
Thats how it looked like: http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/881910_3577530574271_670835567_o.jpg


There are many cars on the track over here with old Cragars or stock steel wheels. I don't want to say that they are good for drag racing, but I want to know if These wheels (#1-3) are dangerous on the track. Last time I drove with my Aluminium Cragar S/S.. no problems at all. Are they better than lets say steel Cragars/US Wheels or Summit aluminum wheels?

I want the best ET that is possible with my street look... hoping for a 8.6 on the 1/8 mile Smile That would have put me on the top 10... with 9.2 I was number 12 of 39.  

shyrgfuh1 shyrgfuh1
User | Posts: 70 | Joined: 11/13
Posted: 11/27/13
03:41 AM

"I don't want to build a drag race car.. it's just for fun. I'll go to the drag Strip twice a year"

sure i understand but i still would not run a 75.00 wheel on any car going over 100 which your car likely will plus i would not run them on a heavy car.

all i can do is warn you against the summit cast chinese made rim. sure it looks nice but it's low price for a reason...

out of the steel wheels i like the look of the us best.

if you want to see more nice looking low price chinese wheels go to rev-wheels.com. i have used them several times.

70bird  

chrisaustria chrisaustria
User | Posts: 174 | Joined: 01/13
Posted: 11/27/13
03:53 AM

The US Wheels have DOT, sure they are cheap but could they fail? Sure I will go faster than 100mph on the 1/4 mile.. but that's only one day every year. The other track is 1/8 mile and I won't get much over 80mph probably.

My Cragar S/S are also made in China.. I don't want to buy such wheels again because I have to pay more taxes if I ship them to Austria than for a US made wheel. (because of the Alumiunium.. there is a "anti-dumping-duty" for every Aluminium from China.. not sure but I think it's extra 28%)

But I have to add.. even they are made in China.. the Cragar S/S look very good and the quality seems to be very good as well. I love those wheels for "every day". Sometimes I ran the car at about 120mph, couldn't feel any problems.  

shyrgfuh1 shyrgfuh1
User | Posts: 70 | Joined: 11/13
Posted: 11/27/13
04:03 AM

it's still 100 mph whether its every day or only one time ever. that being said i am the type that prefers to err on the side of caution. i doubt you have probs with eithe steel wheel.

the chinese summit one might be packaged in such a way that it will not be possible for your import inspectors to tell it was made there.

the summit brand shoebox carbs are made in china but there is no reference to china on the box. the box says "assembled in america". we'll thats certainly different than saying made or mfg'd in america isn't it? lol.

perhaps the wheels might say boxed in america or sold in america.

70 bird  

chrisaustria chrisaustria
User | Posts: 174 | Joined: 01/13
Posted: 11/27/13
04:45 AM

If I risk that and have to pay the extra duty I could have bought Weld's for about an extra of $100...
Really hard to get proper wheels.. also I cannot try them before I get them and to return them to the US is too expensive.

I know that my 275/50/15 on 15x7 with 4.25 backspace fit the car. If I put the same tires on 15x8 with 4.75 backspace the tire should be on exactly the same place as now I guess? But I think I should get more backspace to make sure it won't scratch on the outer side.. on the inner side there is much space left.  

shyrgfuh1 shyrgfuh1
User | Posts: 70 | Joined: 11/13
Posted: 11/27/13
06:26 AM

yes, if it rubs anywhere it is best to rub the inside. keep in mind your axle does not stay centered under the car in a turn. it might move around 3/8" inch plus the fender lip is sharp. the inside of the wheel is not.

sounds like 5 backspace will be close, 5 1/4 will easily be enough. any more and it might look goofy from being too far away from the outside of the car.

if they are say 10" at the widest point on a 7 then they will be around 10 1/2 on an 8 so divide that in half.  

chrisaustria chrisaustria
User | Posts: 174 | Joined: 01/13
Posted: 11/27/13
07:32 AM

This is how it looks like with the drag tire on a 15x7, 4.25" backspace:

http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/1415306_3614961710026_1350910415_o.jpg

If I now put the same tire on a 15x8, 4.75" backspace, the tire should look exactly the same, is that correct?

That is an example for 7x15 bs 4.25 vs 8x15 bs 4.75 with the same tire:
http://scontent-a-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1476388_3724736254321_658274120_n.jpg

This is an example for 7x15 bs 4.25 vs 8x15 bs 5.5 with the same tire:
http://scontent-a-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1461230_3724736294322_606503460_n.jpg

(the orange lines are always the 8x15 wheel)

Somethings tells me I should get the 5.5" backspace because there isn't much choice... 8x15 bs 4.75 or 8x15 bs 5.5 is available for me...  

shyrgfuh1 shyrgfuh1
User | Posts: 70 | Joined: 11/13
Posted: 11/27/13
09:15 AM

yes with 4.75 it will either be the same or the outside of the tire will be around 3 mm closer to the body.

if you get the 5.5 it will move them inward a little and if you don't like the look you can run a thin spacer.  

chrisaustria chrisaustria
User | Posts: 174 | Joined: 01/13
Posted: 11/27/13
11:16 AM

I just tested a 15x8 wheel with 4.5" backspace. Won't fit on the outer side. But if I add 1" on the inner side (such as 5.5" backspace would look like) I may get into trouble with the shocks.. is this possible? Looks like the rim (not the tire) could come very close to the shock if the rim is 1" closer to the inner side.
I made a wood stick that is 1" thick.. it would have enough space to all other places on the inner side but the shock I guess.. really hard to say.  

shyrgfuh1 shyrgfuh1
User | Posts: 70 | Joined: 11/13
Posted: 11/27/13
12:18 PM

did it have a tire on it?

where did it hit?

i would measure the backspace to be sure. it should fit but might barely touch the quarter panel.

as i mentioned, you can use the 5.5 with a 3/8" spacer so you have 5 1/8 which will clear in and out and probably your shock.

big wheels are tough to fit.  

chrisaustria chrisaustria
User | Posts: 174 | Joined: 01/13
Posted: 11/27/13
12:36 PM

I tested with the tire on, yes!
On the outer side the 4.5" backspace isn't enough.. it don't touch but the space is only 1mm or something like that. I simulated the 5.5" backspace with a stick and I'm pretty sure the rim will hit the shock (the tire isn't a problem at all!).
If I have only minimal clearance between shock and the rim it would work because these 2 parts will always have the same distance to each other not depending on load or speed, is that correct?

And is it a good idea to use a spacer with the shank nut style wheel like the Weld Prostar?

There you can see the Problem... distance 4.5" backspace wheel to shock is less than 1" and that's why I think a 5.5" backspace won't fit

http://scontent-a-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1441354_3725425231545_357924536_n.jpg

And this is the outer side.. can't see the top but it is very very tight on the outer side:

http://sphotos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1465858_3725416631330_855104394_o.jpg  

shyrgfuh1 shyrgfuh1
User | Posts: 70 | Joined: 11/13
Posted: 11/27/13
02:37 PM

yes according to your math the 5 1/2 will have a slight interference fit so yes the spacer will work.

no the clearance between the rim and shock will not change a single mm unless you are doing rallye cross and the cheap steel rim flexes into it.

the spacers have no effect on any nuts. the proper length shank type do not stick out the back of the rims ever.  

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