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Power steering pump, brackets and pulleys

  
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Power steering pump, brackets and pulleys

 
65pmdgto1 65pmdgto1
Enthusiast | Posts: 504 | Joined: 12/07
Posted: 12/05/13
05:30 PM

Squeeeeel darn it.!!!!! Every time I start this thing or give it the gas it does this.
I can see the Power steering pulley doesn't line up with water pump pulley. The pump sets back about 3/8" to close to the block and doesn't look real square with the world.. This mix and match combo I inherited with the motor when I bought it. It's a 68 400 block with 6X heads and 11 bolt water pump. The brackets all appear to be from the later model heads. The pump is the pear shaped but the pulley looks like something from a Chevy. The pulley is cast with 4 triangle holes in it. I looked close at the Pontiacs that were at some of the shows we went this past summer and mine is the later set up. I'm all in for a reman pump but of course there's the pulley issue. They can be had from a couple of vendors for $100, there's no guarantee that will be the fix..
I have been in contact with a couple of Pontiac guys here around Denver but they haven't got back to me yet. They may be attending to frozen pipes, it's cold here.  

idrivejunk idrivejunk
Addict | Posts: 4987 | Joined: 12/09
Posted: 12/06/13
12:21 AM

I have done this dance, long ago. Not so much with pulleys but with brackets and alignment. I just had to have the cast bracket that matched the rest of my setup. Billet pulleys didn't help anything, lol. Its darn confusing if you try to track down pieces, nabbing a complete intact setup is of course best. All I can tell you is somewhere there has to be a simplified guide to stock Pontiac accessory drives. If there ain't there ought to be. Right now, I do have an unmolested 72 400 for reference on that year but its covered in ice. I have always gotten by with poking around the garage and making an arrangement of shims, spacers, bolts, etc that positions the pump right to avoid the dreaded belt slippage and wear.  
idrivejunk

shyrgfuh3 shyrgfuh3
Enthusiast | Posts: 283 | Joined: 11/13
Posted: 12/06/13
06:38 AM

call frankspontiacparts.com they know and have what you need.

you can also get a spacer for the pulley. yes they make spacers to shim pulleys with, kinda strange.  

ROWSLEY ROWSLEY
Guru | Posts: 981 | Joined: 07/11
Posted: 12/06/13
11:58 PM

your pulley should be a stamped steel 2 groove unit. and i think there are 2 different length 11 bolt pumps.  
76 455/4spd TRANS AM
69 GRAND PRIX 455/5SPD

gtojack1366 gtojack1366
Guru | Posts: 1223 | Joined: 11/09
Posted: 12/07/13
06:58 AM

This is the setup you should have on your 68 400 engine in 69 Pontiac used 2 different water pumps 4" and a 4 1/2" what pump is on your engine ? Everything has to match.68 69Pump Zpsae9bc26a  Some common water pump pulley numbers
67 some P/S & A/C – 9788886
68 P/S & A/C- 9788886
69 P/S no A/C – 9796060 (short snout pump)(2 groove for alt. and ***
69 P/S & A/C – 9796062 (short snout pump) (2 groove for alt. and ***
69-70 P/S no A/C – 9799127 (long snout pump) (2 groove for alt. and ***
69-70 P/S & A/C – 9799130 (long snout pump) (2 groove for alt. and ***
71-75 P/S, no A/C – 481039
71-75 P/S & A/C – 481040
Some common crank pulley numbers
68-70  V8 no A/C – 9790846 (2 groove for alt. and ***
68-70  V8 A/C – 9790842 (2 groove for alt. and ***
68-70  A/C – 9790843 (one groove for A/C compressor)
71-75 P/S no A/C – 481037
71-75 P/S & A/C – 481038 (2 groove for alt. and ***
71-75 A/C – 480509 (one groove for A/C compressor)  

65pmdgto1 65pmdgto1
Enthusiast | Posts: 504 | Joined: 12/07
Posted: 12/07/13
08:58 AM

Thanks for you replies so far guys. It's been so long that I put this thing together that I can't remember which water pump I ordered. It's a high flow aluminum pump. But that looks to be correct for the crank pulleys. Which is a 3 groove with one for the AC. The assembly guide above is what I have seen at the local car shows on the original cars. But mine has the later model set up.
We moved from Washington state back home to the Denver area a year and half ago. With finding a house etc. it's been tough to even find time for the hobby. But this issue is really bothering me. All my books and receipts are still in boxes that I will have dig through. My restoration guide may have the answer.
I will call Frank's on Monday to see if they can help. Some of these places are really knowledgeable and helpful others not so much. Wish me luck.......  

gtojack1366 gtojack1366
Guru | Posts: 1223 | Joined: 11/09
Posted: 12/07/13
09:53 AM

It sounds like you have a missed match mess ! Car is a 65 the engine is a 68 but the timing cover has to be later because 68 used a 8 bolt water pump .Is the crank pulley stock ?What year is it ? What year and type of PS pump do you have ? and what year and type of PS brackets do you have ? What year and type of water pump pulley do you have ? How tall is your water pump ? are all of the pulleys stock ? Different years different parts ! and even same year different parts ! You probably have the later 4 1/2" water pump and the ps setup for the 4" water pump ! The water pump pulley and the crank pulley match up right ? Then you have to change the water pump and crank pulley to match the ps pump or change the ps pump and brackets to match the water pump and crank pulley .  

65pmdgto1 65pmdgto1
Enthusiast | Posts: 504 | Joined: 12/07
Posted: 12/07/13
01:19 PM

I was looking through an old catalog from OPG this morning and they show 2 different PS pumps for 71-72 and up the last one they picture looks like the bosses on the front of the pump are shorter than the others shown. But not a real good picture. The water pump I have is 4 1/2" an PS pump I have installed, from the catalog, is for a 455 at least the cast pulley is what is on them. And from what I can tell the pulleys are all stock stuff. Yes the water pump and crank and AC pulleys all line up it's just this PS that's giving me fits. Confused
I was looking at Frank's web site this morning and can see from the pictures that I have the 71-75 front alternator bracket. So when it warms up I'll play it some more.  

gtojack1366 gtojack1366
Guru | Posts: 1223 | Joined: 11/09
Posted: 12/07/13
05:33 PM

Your saying that you have a 71-75 ps set up ? What alt setup do you have the 80 amp self regulated alt had different brackets . A photo would help . Is this the type of setup you have ?Alt Ps 1 Zpsa21acef6  

65pmdgto1 65pmdgto1
Enthusiast | Posts: 504 | Joined: 12/07
Posted: 12/07/13
08:15 PM

That looks very similar to my set up. I just can't see in the picture if the bracket is offset forward just below the bolt in the water pump, far left side of the picture....
I'm using a 65 amp alternator without internal regular. I bolts up perfect and lines up fine too. The PS front bracket in the picture looks the same also. They made those kind of idiot proof with that end of the alternator bracket bent toward the pump. Mine might be missing a spacer on the back side of pump or the back bracket might be wrong but I doubt it. I have seen some of these later set ups that have a small bracket that goes on the back of he alternator and to the t-stat housing stud. Most of those went bye bye the first time the alternator or stat was replaced. It's gotta be something simple I just haven't had the real time to tear into it. There are a couple of vintage junk yards around that I will visit when it wamrs up and see what I can find.  

shyrgfuh3 shyrgfuh3
Enthusiast | Posts: 283 | Joined: 11/13
Posted: 12/08/13
04:25 AM

"I just can't see in the picture if the bracket is offset forward just below the bolt in the water pump,"

the alternaor/power steering bracket in the photo is offset around 3/4" forward from the bolt in the water pump. the bracket is not flat.  

65pmdgto1 65pmdgto1
Enthusiast | Posts: 504 | Joined: 12/07
Posted: 12/08/13
08:56 AM

That's the same bracket on my set up. Book says it was used 71-75.. So I have to, but hate to, ASSUME the rest of mine is the same vintage. So is it the pump or do I have something else wrong????  

shyrgfuh3 shyrgfuh3
Enthusiast | Posts: 283 | Joined: 11/13
Posted: 12/08/13
09:43 AM

you need the 70 and later long nose water pump and pulley with that, however i do not know if the pump will fit the timing cover. i think it has 1 xtra bolt. someone here will know.


you said your water pump pulley lines up but your power steering pulley sticks out too far?

look at pulleys on franks site and compare.


if the shaft of the ps pump is not flush with the end of the ps pulley, this will cause misalignment.  

gtojack1366 gtojack1366
Guru | Posts: 1223 | Joined: 11/09
Posted: 12/08/13
02:03 PM

Do you have the spacers one go's on the back of the pump and one go's on the front of the pump . Here's the parts you should have and a diagram .  http://www.ebay.com/itm/151172501749?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649  

ROWSLEY ROWSLEY
Guru | Posts: 981 | Joined: 07/11
Posted: 12/08/13
08:42 PM

i would suspect the oddball water pump pulley. if the alt. lines up the p.s.pump should to.

i am not shur if pontiac made a 4" and  4 1/2" 11 bolt water pump to make up the difference in the brakets or pulleys

you can take a yard stick and put it on the front of the crank pulley to check the water pump, alt. and p.s.pump alinement with a tape measure. it will take 2 people to do this. you will have to measure from the yard stick to the p.s. belt groove on the crank frist then the p.s.pump and water pump. do the same with the alt.

65 i can measure a late model water pump pulley if you need me to.  
76 455/4spd TRANS AM
69 GRAND PRIX 455/5SPD

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