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re-clocking an alternator

  
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re-clocking an alternator

 
mdh157 mdh157
User | Posts: 69 | Joined: 11/13
Posted: 04/21/14
05:18 PM

Anyone know how the he!! to put an alt back together when it has to be re-clocked? The alt in my GP was bad so I bought a repl but it had to be re-clocked 90 deg and the only way to do it was to completely separate the frt/back on the case, now I have no idea how to get it together with the springs depressed or what configuration the brushes were originally in.

There used to be a time when you could accomplish something, now every thing is a pain in the rear, cannot get a bolt-in part off the shelf for a car they made 112K of.  

idrivejunk idrivejunk
Addict | Posts: 5139 | Joined: 12/09
Posted: 04/21/14
05:58 PM

Relax, theres a hole in the casting where you can stick a toothpick or paper clip through to hold the brushes down for reassembly. Once its together, just pull the stick or clip out and there ya go.  
idrivejunk

mdh157 mdh157
User | Posts: 69 | Joined: 11/13
Posted: 04/21/14
06:23 PM

I need some strong medication or liquor, or both. Used to enjoy this stuff, now it drives me nuts.

Any idea how the brushes are supp to be positioned?  I see 2 springs and 2 brushes,no idea how they should be set before I try to reassemble.  Pretty sure I already ruined the springs.  

idrivejunk idrivejunk
Addict | Posts: 5139 | Joined: 12/09
Posted: 04/21/14
06:50 PM

Hate it when something harshes my doggone mellow like that. Breathe deep and enjoy, you're Pontiac-ing now! Well, if you still have your core, theres some springs if your new uns are toast. I didn't miss the part about orientation of brushes just don't have an answer. When I have done it, the curve left in the brush wire has always led me back to the way things were. How to confirm or disprove which goes in which hole is beyond me. I bet somebody in here knows ...  
idrivejunk

wayne712222 wayne712222
Moderator | Posts: 235 | Joined: 10/13
Posted: 04/21/14
08:41 PM

here is an article on the internally regulated version used on slightly later models..

http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/electrical/131-9803-how-to-rebuild-your-alternator/

each of the images has text..


here is a picture of a 10DN externally regulated brush holder..


Delco10dnbrushholder Zps0393238c


Duralast/ wells Alternator Brush for externally regulated alternators
Part Number: RX99
Notes: Except 62 Amp alternator



looking into the REAR housing . the brushes are hanging by their leads out of the holder..  brush holder positioned open side up.. so the springs don't fall out.. insert the springs..   insert the REAR most brush..  lead side down. but the lead fits into  a slot on the side..  depress the brush with a finger.. use either a screw driver. but usually use a small diameter allen wrench to depress the brush deep enough into the brush holder to allow you to slip a spray can nozzle thru the hole in the back part way.. enough to hold the rear brush and spring down.. then insert the forward brush.. hold it down with the allen wrench.. slip the nozzle forward to hold both brushes down.. slip nozzle no more than 1/4" forward of the brush holder..

you are now ready to reinstall the brush end housing.  do NOT PULL the spray nozzle until you have got the case bolts in..

you are now ready to PLAY BALL..  

let us know if this helps.. instructions are very similar to the 10SI internally regulated versions..

i have some service manuals in PDF form..

if you have a 10SI internal regulated alternator this is the brush holder..

10Sibrushholder Zpsae0f3336

brush and spring kit for internally regulated delco alterantors

Duralast/ wells Alternator Brush
Part Number: RX103
Alternate Part Number: R-101X
Notes: Except 80 Amp  

mdh157 mdh157
User | Posts: 69 | Joined: 11/13
Posted: 04/22/14
08:05 AM

mine does not appear to have the slot for holding the brushes in, will have to check it when i get home......just hope the springs aren't toast  

wayne712222 wayne712222
Moderator | Posts: 235 | Joined: 10/13
Posted: 04/22/14
10:30 AM

internal or external regulator..

brush sets are available usually for under 6 bucks and many come with new springs..

check above i edited the previous post.. entered both part numbers for brushes and springs..  

mdh157 mdh157
User | Posts: 69 | Joined: 11/13
Posted: 04/22/14
01:35 PM

Hey guys,

worked on it a bit ago, got it back in and running, voltage off is 12.6, running is 14.6 so it looks like i got a good alternator.  gen light also works now when starting, it did not before, hopefully it will work if it stops charging.  I was able to make the springs/brushes work even though i beat them up a bit.  Can't believe i got myself wound up when all i needed was a paper clip to hold them in!  Now, back to the fuel gauge thread.......and thank you both for the advice!  

wayne712222 wayne712222
Moderator | Posts: 235 | Joined: 10/13
Posted: 04/22/14
01:48 PM

please run the voltage drop test again..

verify.

engine running.. headlights on..


1.  Negative post to the positive post.. 14.6 is what you got..

2.  Negative post to the Engine block..  0.04 volts DC MAX

3.  Negative post to the BODY.. 0.02 volts DC MAX..

4.  Engine block to the BODY.. 0.02 volts DC MAX..

5.  and you probably don't need to do this because #1 looks good..  alternator output stud to positive battery post.. this could be up to about half a volt..  if you get over that.. post the info.. move the test leads to either side of each connection to see if the connection has resistance that will show up as a voltage drop in this test..

why do i want you to run this test...

if test 2, 3 or 4. come out HIGHER than 4/100ths or 2/100ths of a volt. you will have issues with various gauges..

the fuel gauge uses the ground side of the circuit for HALF its circuit..

i can perform this test .. 5 parts of it. in about 2 minutes..  i can do the first 4 parts in under a minute..  

it took me ten times longer to type this than it will for you to test it on the car..  

mdh157 mdh157
User | Posts: 69 | Joined: 11/13
Posted: 04/22/14
03:44 PM

test 1:  14.35 (is that normal for this to drop from 14.6 to 14.35 in the past 2 hrs when i first tested it)?  stays the same with lights on or off
test 2-4:  .00-.02
test 5:  fluctuates between .01-.04, mostly .02  

wayne712222 wayne712222
Moderator | Posts: 235 | Joined: 10/13
Posted: 04/22/14
04:28 PM

external regulator or internal regulator???


external regulator

test voltage drop between rear of alternator housing and mounting foot of voltage regulator..

test between mounting foot and body..   both should be very small you might have to set the meter to 2 volts DC to get a reading other than 0.00..

test between terminal 3 and the battery positive.. there will be some voltage drop measured there.. how  much????

if you are still having gas gauge issues.. see the PINK circuit on the cluster diagram.. that feeds the alternator lamp..  the other side goes to terminal 1 on internal or terminal 4 on external. if you are having issues with the cluster.. your problem could be within the pink wire to the circuit board.. the bulb connection on the circuit board. or the wiring from the circuit board to the voltage regulator..

internal regulator...

test output terminal to pin 2.. the big red wire into the side.. should be a fraction of a volt off.. post that number..

also same side terminal big red on #2.. to positive battery.. should not fluctuate..


since i don't have your car in front of me.  its kinda hard to recall what parts everybody has on their car..


so.. look at this next image with humor.. the guy one another forum posted my car won't start so i am going to repair the alternator wiring.  if no notice.. the ford solenoid just kinda dangling..  won't do much of anything with that not properly mounted..

Fordwiringissues Zpscf1dc585  

mdh157 mdh157
User | Posts: 69 | Joined: 11/13
Posted: 04/22/14
04:47 PM

output terminal to pin 2 - .01v
pin 2 to pos batt - .00v  

mdh157 mdh157
User | Posts: 69 | Joined: 11/13
Posted: 04/22/14
04:56 PM

MY GP does have the correct cluster, it is an indicator lamp cluster.  I also have the temp light, it lights up brightly when cranking, once the car is running it is on dim, looks like there is a bulb in the background making it look like it is on but I have not pulled the cluster to look at it further.  

wayne712222 wayne712222
Moderator | Posts: 235 | Joined: 10/13
Posted: 04/22/14
05:46 PM

if you pull the cluster.. please snap photos.. straight on..

and snap photos at angles for of the cluster connector..  both sides.. so i can see what wires go to which locations on the circuit board..

i will work on the pair of cluster diagrams..

now.. on the TEMP light.   please OHM the sending unit..  with a LIGHT.. the sending unit is a ON off switch..   the temp sender terminal is SHORTED TO GROUND above 240F or so.. i will have to check the specs..  disconnect the temp sender see if the light goes OUT???   when you turn the key to the CRANK position. the temp sender wire.. is SHORTED TO GROUND inside the ignition switch..

what..

it goes..

engine/sender  wire wire wire..   ignition switch G1 or G2 then up to the lamp in the cluster..  this tests the bulb for operation..  bulb check..

say... hang on .. let me dig that diagram out.. perhaps.. there has been an error..

does anything else work bad in the cluster????  

mdh157 mdh157
User | Posts: 69 | Joined: 11/13
Posted: 04/22/14
06:06 PM

as far as i know the rest of the cluster is good.......oil light goes on to test, no idea if it would work if i lost pressure though.  some of the light bulbs work, some don't. only thing in center is speedo/odo, both work, of course.  Only thing on right is clock which does not work (not that i expect that to).

If I were to remove the oil or temp sender and ground them would that cause the idiot lights to come on if the circuits are good?

my big concern is that the fuel sender wire didn't change the gauge when i disconn it @ the trunk connector and grounded the gauge side out.  

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