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sorry Camshaft again!

  
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sorry Camshaft again!

 
'52 Indian Delivery '52 Indian Delivery
New User | Posts: 17 | Joined: 03/14
Posted: 03/16/14
04:14 PM

OK Guys & Gals, I have read the sticky posts and am still a bit confused so pardon me.
I talked with Greg at Butler Performance and he recommended the "041" Camshaft but that camshaft looks to be too much cam for my '68 400 and TH400 according to some articles that I have read including Jim Hand's articles (thanks Jim!).
I would like to stay with a Pontiac Grind (not sure why) so I am looking at the "068" Camshaft. I want a "coffee Shop" grind although need all around performance as well as lower end...OK I want it all....great sounding cam and lower end!
Can anyone post how their "068" camshaft sounds and advice? or if I should consider a different Ram Air Camshaft.
thanks in advance!  

ROWSLEY ROWSLEY
Guru | Posts: 1016 | Joined: 07/11
Posted: 03/16/14
05:25 PM

i have had them both in 400s. the 041 sounds great but you need headers, 10 to 1 compression, 2800 stall ok 3500 is better and 3.73 gears! almost forgot a vacume can for power brakes!

068 will work with 9to1 and stock stall but only loped when cold! but performs great!imo

they make better cams now!!

we need to know more info on the motor/car combo and what you will be doing with it.  
76 455/4spd TRANS AM
69 GRAND PRIX 455/5SPD

'52 Indian Delivery '52 Indian Delivery
New User | Posts: 17 | Joined: 03/14
Posted: 03/16/14
06:12 PM

OK don't want to replace the Torque Converter so Stall Speed will not work, again looking for good all around performance.
"52 Pontiac Sedan Delivery, '68 400 with TH 400, not sure about the gears but most likely close to 325 or so.
Want lower end and mid range but would like something lopey just because the sound great! really like the way the "041" sounds but it looks to be more a mid to high range cam.  

shyrgfuh3 shyrgfuh3
Enthusiast | Posts: 466 | Joined: 11/13
Posted: 03/17/14
08:10 PM

i might buy this cam in your case. it is close to the lopiest you can run for your app imo. unfortunately it will be a mild lope.

262  270  218  224  110 lsa  1300 - 5500

http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=1202&sb=0

if your compression is less than around 9.0 i might increase it.



what are the numbers on top of your center exhaust port and tiny number by the valve cover off to the side by the casting number.


you need flowmaster single or dual chamber mufflers for the doughnut shop sound, lol.


if you have at least around 8.75 compression, i would run this cam and advance it 4 degrees with an adjustable timing chain from summit racing for 60.00. it will then have strong bottom and mid and a noticeable but not obnoxious lope.

268  280  224  230  110 lsa  1600 - 5800

http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=1203&sb=0  

'52 Indian Delivery '52 Indian Delivery
New User | Posts: 17 | Joined: 03/14
Posted: 03/22/14
04:18 PM

OK so here is what I have for you;
Block Casting is 9790071, 1968 400
Heads are #15, 1968 400
Most likey .030 over 8.5:1 CR
Intake is Edelbrock Performer
Carb is Edelbrock #1406, 600 CFM Electric Choke (maybe small?)
Cam is currently an RV (for whatever that means!)
HEI Distributor
Exhaust is most likely from the 1968 Grand Prix although if Ram Air would fit I may try to upgrade this.

I am interested in a Ram Air Cam. I am an "Old Guy" and not really wanting to go fast just don't want the car to sound like a "Sewing Machine" when we pull into a show.
thanks in advance  

shyrgfuh3 shyrgfuh3
Enthusiast | Posts: 466 | Joined: 11/13
Posted: 03/22/14
04:56 PM

OK so here is what I have for you;
1968 400
Heads are #15, 1968 400
Most likey .030 over 8.5:1 CR
Intake is Edelbrock Performer
Carb is Edelbrock #1406, 600 CFM Electric Choke (maybe small?)


I am interested in a Ram Air Cam. I am an "Old Guy" and not really wanting to go fast just don't want the car to sound like a "Sewing Machine" when we pull into a show.



your intake is wrong for an 041 cam but it is the one you need if you try to run one.

your compression is too low for an 041 cam to work well [won't work at all].

"rv" means recreational vehicle, as in a motor home etc., lol. What are the exact specs of the cam?

a tiny comp 262h cam like i previously suggested and some glass packs or single chamber flowmasters are likely in your future.  

shyrgfuh3 shyrgfuh3
Enthusiast | Posts: 466 | Joined: 11/13
Posted: 03/22/14
05:01 PM

your compression is too low for an 041 cam to work well.

rv means recreational vehicle, as in a motor home etc., lol. what are the exact specs?

a tiny comp 262h cam and some glass packs or single chamber flowmasters are likely in your future.you  

'52 Indian Delivery '52 Indian Delivery
New User | Posts: 17 | Joined: 03/14
Posted: 03/22/14
05:56 PM

I understand what RV Cam means (I also have a Motorhome) just not what specs it has. Would like to keep the CR lower so that I can run "pump gas" without problems.
"041" is not realistic for a Stock Torque Converter and low end performance, need to be able to go up and down my Mountain (6500') without issues. Really thinking of the "744".
Flowmasters would be way too loud, would much rather use a Stock replacement Ram Air Mufflers like what should be on an early Ram Air GTO, they sounded great in the day and now.  

shyrgfuh3 shyrgfuh3
Enthusiast | Posts: 466 | Joined: 11/13
Posted: 03/22/14
06:21 PM

"I understand what RV Cam means (I also have a Motorhome) just not what specs it has."

"Cam is currently an RV (for whatever that means!)"

That is not how your question reads so I answered your question the way it reads.



"Would like to keep the CR lower so that I can run "pump gas" without problems.

need to be able to go up and down my Mountain (6500') without issues."

You can run up to around 9.7 static compression at sea level on 91-93 octane providing your ignition timing and timing curve are not excessive.

You loose around 5 psi of cylinder cranking compression for every 1000 ft increase in elevation. If you have 8.5 compression at sea level, you effectively have around 7.0 at 6500 ft. That's ridiculously low.

If you run E85 corn gas, you can run around 11.0 compression at sea level.



"the 041 is not realistic for a Stock Torque Converter and low end performance... Really thinking of the "744".

Neither is the 744 cam.



"need to be able to go up and down my Mountain (6500') without issues."

Buy the cam I suggested then.

I suggested the comp xe262h cam twice now, what is wrong with it?

How do you think your eng will run with a 744 cam that is designed for 10.0 compression and large valves at sea level in an engine that effectively has around 7.0 compression at 6500 ft?



"Flowmasters would be way too loud, would much rather use a Stock replacement Ram Air Mufflers like what should be on an early Ram Air GTO, they sounded great in the day and now."

The stock RA mufflers only sound great with an 041 cam and 10.0 compression.  

'52 Indian Delivery '52 Indian Delivery
New User | Posts: 17 | Joined: 03/14
Posted: 03/22/14
07:23 PM

thanks for your "input". Still would like advice though.
You loose around 5 psi of cylinder cranking compression for every 1000 ft increase in elevation.

"If you have 8.5 compression at sea level, you have around 7.0 at 6500 ft. That's ridiculously low. If you run E85 corn gas, you can run around 11.0 compression at sea level"
Who said anything about E85?my '07 Yukon can run that crap but I wouldn't use it in my '52.

"How do you think your eng will run with a 744 cam that is designed for 10.0 compression and large valves at sea level in an engine that effectively has around 7.0 compression at 6500 ft?"
That is why I am looking for advice on this, the car still needs to run when I take it off the "hill". Please keep in mind that most of us are very good at something...me yacht racing! I sold all of my rods when we moved aboard and 30 years later I am coming full circle and building a couple of cars ('55 T-Bird and '52 Pontiac Delivery) neither of them are going to be stock. The T-Bird was easy but the Pontiac isn't so I am looking for positive advice, not argumentative responses because I am not knowledgeable about these engines..  

shyrgfuh3 shyrgfuh3
Enthusiast | Posts: 466 | Joined: 11/13
Posted: 03/22/14
08:00 PM

EXACTLY what other advice do you need. I am not being argumentative, I am simply stating facts.


I gave you a suggestion to run the comp XE262H cam twice now and not to run the 041 or 744. I then asked you why you do not want to run the comp cam but you have not answered me.


I will try to make my "input" more clear for you. Your compression is low, it sucks, if you install a bigger cam than you currently have, you will loose bottom end performance AND compression. You need compression to get up your hill. My suggestion is either get a set of heads with higher compression or leave the cam that is in there.


The "bigger" a cam is the higher your gear ratio needs to be.

General example for a 400 engine in a 3600 lb car:

262 cam 3.23

274 cam 3.50

286 cam 3.73

300 cam 3.91

In your particular case, if you just stuff a 744 cam [which is a 300 adv dur] in your low compression engine in a vehicle weighing over 3600 lbs. going up a hill to 6500 feet, I suggest 3.91 gears.


As far as mufflers go, if you can't get replicas of the originals, then listen to the video below if you want. The stainless steel mufflers at 4:30 and the thrush super turbos at 4:50 might be interesting to you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORGyLVmFqmY  

ROWSLEY ROWSLEY
Guru | Posts: 1016 | Joined: 07/11
Posted: 03/22/14
08:26 PM

it's ok shy, he's only interested in the sound of the motor

i think the 744 still may be a little big for a stock converter and your compression.
9779068  288  302  (212  225)  .410  .410  116                    
9785744  301  313  (224  236) .410  .410  119  
9794041  308  320  (231  240)  .470  .470  114  

how about  crane H-272-2  272  284  (216  228)  .450  .480  112   or    
Lunati  10704  301  318  (220  228)  .420  .420  110  
 
you need to look at the duration at (.050 )lift to compare cams.

check out this site

http://www.pontiacpower.org/PontiacCams.htm

these cams are still a little too big for what you have but since you don't care how good it runs! they will sound good! just won't have much power till 2500 to 3000 rpms

a small stall converter will help the car idle in gear better. the power brakes will be alittle hard to push also.

try an x-pipe with what ever muffler you pick. you will love it!!  
76 455/4spd TRANS AM
69 GRAND PRIX 455/5SPD

'52 Indian Delivery '52 Indian Delivery
New User | Posts: 17 | Joined: 03/14
Posted: 03/22/14
08:38 PM

Thanks!
I have a 1958 Airstream 18' Traveler that will be be towed behind the Delivery (how cool will that be going to a car show with 2 very rare pieces!) so I am very hesitant about a stall speed converter.
I may need to stay with the "RV" Cam just for the lower end...and this would be much easier since I won't need to that the engine apart! Just wanted more of a "coffee shop" grind. My racing days are over for the most part since I have so many other interests and get to retire in a couple of months!  

ROWSLEY ROWSLEY
Guru | Posts: 1016 | Joined: 07/11
Posted: 03/23/14
08:40 PM

sounds like the best thing to me. stall converter would just overheat the tranny! if it's not broke don't fix it!!  
76 455/4spd TRANS AM
69 GRAND PRIX 455/5SPD

ROWSLEY ROWSLEY
Guru | Posts: 1016 | Joined: 07/11
Posted: 03/23/14
08:40 PM

i wish hpp would fix the posting problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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76 455/4spd TRANS AM
69 GRAND PRIX 455/5SPD